to think there is many people out there who need disability awareness training......

[devilishmangerdanger]

including some who you think may touch upon the subject, such as religious groups etc?

MrsElle, unless you said that was the case, how were they to know that your pelvis was in that condition? I'm sure they would've given you a comfy chair if you told them. I mean, a lot of parents would prefer a comfy staff chair, but it wasn't really a preference was it, so why state it as one?

ngle, you should have asked her where her Nobel Prize is then, because you know someone "fully abled" who got one

Oh I quoted somebody else it was netto who was told that still disgraceful though ,
perhaps we should be more people aware rather than disabled aware then we can all live in an equal society,

I do know that that is never going to happen,

Churches?

I brought a severely disabled friend to church once. I was going to bring him for lunch afterwards, until one of the lovely Christians said that we were not welcome as she couldn't stand the way "those people" eat.

I had a stand up row with the stupid cowbag she took it to the pastor - who agreed with her! apparently Jesus meant love your neighbour from a good distance, as long as they are socially acceptable and Don`t make you feel yucky.

Still angry more than 10 years on, (and a very happy atheist who attends various churches weekly with vulnerable older people, since the religionists haven't the time or inclination, and while I despise religion, I recognise that my clients need it.)

As a general rule, people are terribly good at pretending to be inclusive, right up until it impacts on their life at all, when suddenly they don't feel the need.

While that is horrendous CrunchyFrog, was it a one off, or have you experienced it more generally? I am certainly no fan of religion, but you can't just write them all off because of one set of idiots.

I had a stand up row with the stupid cowbag she took it to the pastor - who agreed with her! apparently Jesus meant love your neighbour from a good distance, as long as they are socially acceptable and Don`t make you feel yucky.

there are no words

'As a general rule, people are terribly good at pretending to be inclusive, right up until it impacts on their life at all, when suddenly they don't feel the need.'

Exactly so. Then the excuses and the dissembling begins. And the shunning.

Kakapo, it was me who got the fully disabled comment.
I asked her if she'd watched the Paralympics and did she think I was like one of them, to which she replied no, and I pointed out that she was correct, I'm not like anyone else, I'm an individual with individual needs, and whilst I may not use a wheelchair all the time, I have an illness that has left me unable to breathe for myself on occasion, how much more disabled do I need to be?
She was showing me a flat I'm moving to because of my illness ffs and she knows this.

that is very bizarre Netto, the mind boggles!! Do you think disability training would actually help people like that? It couldn't hurt at least, but they seem to be almost willfully missing the point!

It can't hurt really, but I'd have expected her to have had training.
The other thing that I don't think helps is the disabled sign being a wheelchair, when not all disabilities require one, and even if they do, it doesn't mean there's anything wrong with their legs.
Mine are just fine, my lungs however, are fucked.

I think people expect disabled to look like something, when in reality it can look like many different things, including nothing!

but my dd is in a wheelchair because she can't walk...
(adds to confusion)

sadly the people who mist need training...parents
won't be.
sad as them my dd could go on a bus and use the 1 wheelchair space.

I use when when I can't walk far, still nothing wrong with my legs

As part of my job I am an accessibility consultant. I have always focussed on making places, services & companies as accessible as possible rather than focussing on individual disabilities. For me accessibility often becomes a priority of whatever disability champion shouts loudest, this often means that improvements don't benefit the users or open the service up to the right people, just certain sectors. I always say accessibility is more than installing a lift or painting yellow lines but many people are not aware of this. Good accessible design shouldn't always be obvious as this highlights and makes an issue of somebodies disability. Good design should open up spaces to everybody (makes economic as well as moral sense) and often with awareness this can be made easier by just small adjustments to the physical environment or changes to how you do things. Sorry I can go on about this for hours.

I use when when I can't walk far, still nothing wrong with my legs

I hire 1 when i have to walk far or keep up with the family I did once hire a scooter not a good idea i knocked down a display in whsmiths should have bigger aisles anyway

Good design should open up spaces to everybody (makes economic as well as moral sense) and often with awareness this can be made easier by just small adjustments to the physical environment or changes to how you do things. Sorry I can go on about this for hours.

this then i wouldn't get the look when i go into a disabled toilet just make it a bigger toilet a toilet for prams buggies wheelchairs anybody who needs a bit of space to do their business

DoubleLifeIsALifeHalved I've just found this thread so I am so but I am late to post.

I'm so sad to hear your account of trying to get assistance to attend mass. I want you to know that not all church communities are so ignorant. Both my church and my parent's church would have either arranged transport and assistance to enable you to attend mass or if that was logistically impossible, a minister of the Eucharist would have visited you to share some readings and administer communion ans pray/sing with you. These churches by the way are in opposite sites of the country and are Catholic.

I've been put off church by congregation's attitude to my disability. OK so it wasn't diagnosed at the time but I hate the implication that I was doing it on purpose. They also accused me of not allowing God to heal me - I prayed for healing regularly but God made me the way I am for a reason and I am healed in that I am happy with the way I am.

BTW my disability is Aspergers. I don't remember the congregation ever blaming a blind parishioner or another who was in a wheelchair for the way they were. Plus the church in question are quite happy to accept Aspergers when it suits them (eg using modern technology which without Bill Gates' Aspergers brain would not exist)

Any church which blames the supplicant for not "allowing God to heal" is demonstrating bad theology, ProudAS and you are well out of it. I've also had some pretty poor treatment from a church, but am also part of a (different) church which has been willing to work through misunderstandings. I'm both Lay Reader and Churchwarden there now, as well as running a very successful house group, "despite" being Aspie!

Shocking :(

I too have felt the pressure to say if got better cos of prayer, & felt people get cooler when I was still ill. God isn't about humans pointing Him like a magic stick & then blaming the person when it doesn't work. Pah!

I think what really upsets me is that churches are supposed to care, supposed to be striving to be better, kinder, more good... somehow it hurts less when the person being cruel doesn't Pretend to be Good.

Fortunately for me I went to a primary school with a severely autistic boy in my class so I learnt first hand all about autism, he was wonderful and we all cared for him dearly.

In secondary school had two blind kids in my form, it was a regular comp but had a specialised blind unit (had all the necessary equipment and trained people). One morning we actually were made to get into pairs and one guided whilst the other was blind folded and had to be guided around the school to see how it feels for them. It taught us all to not treat them any differently and we didn't, nobody blinked at the blind children within the school, that was just 'normal'.

I think integration within schools (where possible of course) is really important. Now as an adult I don't even notice disabilities, it isn't a case of 'oh look a disabled person', just a person like any other. We weren't specifically sat down and talked to about it but we had first hand experience and I think that is vital (also had a blind teacher with guide dog, just remembered).

I think its all a bit taboo and able bodied people can be a bit afraid because it is different to them and unknown. A lot of people believe a lot of myths as well. I think children should be taught about it though, not like a lesson purely about that but just maybe a lesson to discuss 'differences' amongst humans from race through to sexuality and so on. The myths need to be dispelled from an early age and it would curb a lot of the issues.

I went to a brilliant disability conference once where a number of people with disabilities stood up and said "stop trying to heal us, not everyone wants to be healed, although some do". And the church leaders there really seemed to listen.