To be upset by this? (Or just really naive?)

[mollysmum82]

I attended a teacher training inset at my new school the other day. It was all about 'gcse results development' - basically how they could optimise their 5 a-c results at gcse for the league tables. The head teacher put a list of year 11 children's names on the projector, alongside the grades they were predicted for summer. He told us to 'ignore the e,f,g grade pupils' as they were a lost cause anyway, in terms of achieving the precious grade c for the league tables. He also said to ignore the a, a* and b grade candidates as it was unlikely they would slip under a c. Instead we were told to focus all out attentions on the c/d grade pupils to ensure they got their c (and thus the high place in the league tables for the school).

This attitude really shocked and upset me. It goes against every value I have for individual children mattering and helping everyone achieve their highest potential.

Am i naive? Does every school do this??

I am trying to think whether this happened in my school - it was a top if the league tables comp - I din't remember getting much focused attention and I got a and b grades, so maybe. I hate the idea as a parent though.

My dh would be at The Great Gatsby being described as the shittest book in history - it's his all time favourite!

My DC's comp does this and I know because I saw the diagram on a big white board in the teachers staff room. It was a Venn Diagram with three over lapping circles with the mid achieving DC's names in the circles. One of the circles was labelled 'maths', one was labelled 'English' but I can't remember the third one.

It's true coz I saw it

The Great Gatsby is freaking beautiful. How DARE he?

3monkeys It might (The Great Gatsby) indeed be a good a book but it was odd, and slightly funny to see 2 english teachers fighinting over which book better/more intellgellient/meaningful .....the one saying the great gatsby was the shittest book ever was also complaining he only got 'Mid Summuers Night Dream' to teach when the teacher of the 'clever class got 'Othello and MacBeth'

All I'm saying is 'setting doesn't only affect the pupils' it obviously annoys teachers too

It's really nice to see the middling ones getting a bit of attention.

Because in primary - the strugglers are given extra help and the high achievers are given extension groups and the middlers sort of sit in the middle.

Having said that it would be nice if all invidual dcs were given what they needed.

This isn't right so OP I believe you have a right to be upset.

Unfortunately, schools and colleges are not there initially for the benefit of the dc but for the benefit of targets and results.

I am not surprised at all as I know this exists, but if you look further you will find a whole heap of similar flaws in the system.

Happens where I teach and I am judged on how many kids get c grades and now thanks to michael Gove, if I am not concentrating on those d to c grades, I won't get a pay rise either.

It's not about writing anyone off - its about statistics.

Throw all you can at the borderline, that's where effectiveness counts (where grades are concerned).

After 10 years of education children getting an F are very unlikely statistically to get a C even if you had a head of department following them round barking facts at them all day, massaging exam questions into their brain at night and preparing cheat sheets for them to right on their thighs a la Arnold Rimmer.

It happens to some extent at our school. The C/D borderliners do get more resources pushed at them, especially in Maths and English. But we also push the others as well, and sometimes the extra resources being pushed at the C/D borderliners means that we can improve the chances of the E/F/G pupils as well.

Looking at my Year 11 classes though, I can definitely see some of my D grade pupils getting to a C, some of the B grades moving up to As (I don't teach anybody I think will make it to an A* this year). The pupils who are on lower than a D do not want to put the effort in to improve their grades. It's very sad and I wish it was different, but I would have to put significantly more effort into helping an F grade pupil achieve an E than I do to help a D grade pupil achieve the C. Partly because I would be fighting the F grade pupil all the way and forcing them into every single bit of revision they do, while the pupils aiming for a C are a bit more willing (I'm not going to lie and say they are completely self-motivated but they don't actively resist learning Maths).

What I've just said might only be true for my classes, but I've been teaching a while now and it's happened every year so far, with a few exceptions along the way.

You get what you measure - like the story of the one tonne nail.

Interesting that independent schools seem to focus on the percentage getting A to A, and A to B.

You are being a bit naive, but don't think that you can't make a difference in your own classroom.

Last year I had the bottom set with estimated grades from C-G. The aim was to get as many to C as possible. I worked damn hard with each individual to get the best out of them and took pride in their personal achievements. For example, I was so proud that the boy who was at risk of getting a U as he refused to put pen to paper in any subject (and was a school refuser) finished the year with a complete coursework folder (each piece just one paragraph long) and was able to use appropriate quotations.

I was just as proud of converting E grade students to D grade as I was my C grades, though the school only judged me on my C's because that is what they in turn are judged on.

ChristmasKnackers.

I am really disgusted at the way teachers are treated and have witnessed some of these as an A level teacher, and you have my sympathy.

There are some kids who will never gain GCSE's they are not stupid or thick its just that at that time education isn't for them.

Until teachers in schools and colleges are given autonomy to support kids in the way they know how, its the kids who will suffer.

These kids surely need encouraging in other directions not made to feel like failures.

Instead of University being what everybody strives for, we should be encouraging a life long love of finding satisfaction in a chosen career or job.

Some children or young people simply are not academic enough to get 5 A-C. That is part of the canker at the heart of Britain and the British education system. Not every child is academic; that doesn't mean they are not able to achieve and be successful in other ways.

The UK needs to focus on functional skills for those children and to start valuing vocational skills. There is nothing wrong with being an electrician, a mechanic, a hairdresser, a florist, a cook, a chef, a hotel concierge, a cab driver or a train driver. All the people who do those jobs provide essential services to the rest of us and many of them run successful small businesses. It is high time they and their skills and contribution to our society were more highly valued.

Do schools still refuse to enter kids who they think won't get c's or above into gcse's these days?

Sock.

Ime with both my older 2 dcs no they don't. My 2 were fine but their peers who struggled were pushed and bullied through theirs. However, more is being offered in terms of Diplomas and other vocational options but these are usually alongside some GCSE's.

There is also still stereotypical ideas at the other end as well. My friend teaches childcare and every year students unlikely to do well in GCSE's are encouraged in this subject. There are several potential A* who are discouraged, even when this is the area they wish to pursue work.

C/D borderline is a focus, but so are A*/As as if they aren't great it is a sign to Ofsted that you aren't challenging the brighter pupils.

I teach History and have some GCSE pupils with a reading age of 7 or 8. For them to get a grade will be a huge achievement and will be celebrated. I offer extra support to all of my students if they wish to access it. C/D borderlines and A*/A students are targeted by the SLT and get no choice about 'intervention' in English and Maths, which then takes place at the expense of 'option' subjects.

YANBU but it is true that this would be the case in most schools.

The way I see it and (act on it in my department), is that each individual teacher is responsible for working hard to make sure every student they teach reaches their target. I do this with my own classes. However, as Head of GCSE English I focus on the C/D Borderlines and the English G and T Coordinator focuses on the A/As.

It's SMT policy in my school and I take no damn notice whatsoever. I push all my pupils equally and bollocks to SMT. I'm not writing off any kid because their D grade (when their target was an F) doesn't look good enough for the tables list. I'm as proud, if not prouder, of him than the A* student who found it easier.

Being naive doesn't preclude you from being upset - this is upsetting, even if it does go on in many, many state schools.

Yeah that defo happened in my school and I took GCSEs 10 years ago!

But parents like the league tables and the results are what they are based on, so of course schools have this strategy. Just like primaries teach to SATs all year.

Do schools still refuse to enter kids who they think won't get c's or above into gcse's these days?

Unlikely, unless they haven't done their CW or CAUs.

The points value awared to GCSE grades means even a G can push up the points statistics. This is why schools use BTECs to shove up their averages. Well, they won't be able to do that for much longer; that amount of vocational qualifications that count as GCSE equivalents has been stripped massively.

This is what happens when you target and monitor performance poorly. It is the same poor performance management and targeting that results in mid-selling of financial services, it is the same in every industry.

People do what people check.

The E/F/G candidates need to pull themselves up. You won't be able to do it. It's more than likely that they are just not applying themselves, or trying, and you can't force somebody to try.

If they do start concentrating and trying, they'll get closer to the C/D grades that you do aim to help. Those pupils already at C/D are trying, and deserve help to get a "successful" grade

The A/A/B pupils will be motivating themselves, so are unlikely to drop in grades, and will likely seek help themselves if they do.*

What a load if terrifically simplistic shite, CajaDeLaMemoria.

I suspect the majority of schools are like this and I despise it.

The teacher who taught the 'less clever' children squared up to the teacher who taught the 'clever' children and waved his fists and said ' you get all the best books you bastard , you're getting The Outsiders and Catcher in Rye and am getting The Great Gatsby, the shitest book in history

Of course now, everyone reads Of Mice and fucking men, regardless of ability. Yawn!