WIBU to suggest this (acting - same sex relationship)?

[manicinsomniac]

I've just been in a meeting to cast our school play.

Only 15 boys auditioned this year and only 5 of them are good enough to be anything beyond chorus. So we have changed a lot of the parts into girls. Eventually we only had one problem left - a massive male part who is in love with a minor female part. And no boy left who can handle the role.

Reluctantly, my co director said we'd have to change the large part into a female character and cut the love plot. I then said "unless we make them lesbians?" Cue massive amounts of laughter. I said "I was only half joking? Why couldn't we?"

Colleagues said head and parents would be horrified and absolutely no way could we do that. Totally inappropriate. Conversation moved on and all is sorted and cast now.

But now I'm thinking - is there any real reason why a school musical couldn't reasonably portray a same sex relationship. Is it really so inappropriate? Would you be unhappy with this as parents of the cast? (children are Y6 - Y8).

It wouldn't bother me so long as the children were happy to play such roles (by this I mean that they are of a maturity level to understand what it would mean, and also would be able to stand up to any ribbing they may suffer as a consequence.)

I don't really get the reactions to the ages of the pupils, chances are, unless it is a tiny and extremely remote school, I'm thinking Shetland Islands tiny and remote here, that a good proportion of the pupils will have a gay relative/ Parent(s) or friend. So I don't see it would be that much of a problem to be honest.

The one thing that would really bother me as a parent is if children of the ages you give were involved in sexual contact such as kissing/ hugging and holding hands. Before you all flame me, I would object to my Dcs showing this type of behaviour if the characters were hetero or homosexual at that age, as I don't think it's appropriate to play act behaviour that should only form part of a committed relationship. I also think that if this came across as gratuitous you risk your point being over shadowed by accusations and complaints. Of course be extremely sensitive to stereotypes and be sure to avoid them.

If it were me, I would also want to seek reassurance from the school that there would be wider consideration of same sex relationships in PHSE, for two reasons:

1. To show that teasing, based on the decision to be in a ss relationship is never acceptable, in order to prevent teasing of those who take part and also those whose parents are in such relationships.

1. To offer discrete support to those who may be struggling to come to terms with ss attraction in their only lives and period of development.

To this end, I would suggest a brief letter of notice to parents, with the contact name of the Pastoral Care coordinator and yourself, OP, so that if necessary, they are able to discuss any concerns directly and privately.

To conclude, YANBU

Does the Beast have to have a sex? Wouldn't you just choose the best actor fir the part who could play the character as male or female or butch or whatever?

I think a monocled Radcliffe Hall type Beast eould be delightful!

I wouldn't have a problem with this as a parent. Kids are going to be sniggery about romantic relationships at that age whatever the combination.

You shouldnt be allowed near children, much less pushing your own values teaching them

What, the values of open mindedness and acceptance of people whoever they may fall in love wirh? I hope your kids never struggle with their sexuality.

OP. You sound like a great and brave teacher, good luck with the production.

Great post, noLitttle

yes noLittle very insightful post, thanks. I wish I could take your advice. It's not up to me though, we work as a production team of 5 and not one of the others would even consider it.

The only think I disagree with is that we do do hand holding and hugging in our plays from as young as age 8, as part of all sorts of relationships and/or in dances. I've never thought of that as inappropriate and we've never had a complaint. Obviously no kissing though, I agree with you there.

There is no reason why the most appropriate pupil play the appropriate part no matter their sex. As noted at 11 a sexual portrayal of any relationship is unlikely to be a good idea, but a non sexual relationship is a good idea though and if the candidates for the part are a single sex then YANBU to pick them.

Manic, could you not suggest linking it with PHSE classes? At my DCs' school they often link a few classes together to facilitate different learning styles and things. This could be a way of making them see your point for what it is, that we should be tolerant of all loving relationships. As I understand it, PHSE now has to discuss ss relationships, so my question to your colleagues would be, why can't this play help with that discussion?

Re hugging, I am not saying it's inappropriate in itself, in a platonic scene I would be fine with it.

Beast in ours was played by a girl and her and Belle had lots of hand holding hugging etc. Worked very well but I suppose everyone just assumed the 'girl Beast' was playing a 'boy Beast'

Very sad that it is laughable to have a lesbian relationship in the play

I think it is a terrible shame you are so dismissive of the boys who auditioned. Did you ever consider that the reason so few auditioned is because you give all the parts to girls? Why would they bother when there efforts are so publicly rejected? Actually I think it's disgraceful - it is a poxy school play. Give the part to a boy.

I assume all girls schools manage to put on plays featuring both male and female characters without same sex relationships being raised as an issue

I think it would have been great to show a lesbian storyline. Some parents might be unhappy but it's a good opportunity to look at those reactions and discuss why they're wrong.

It really shouldn't be taboo to portray a homosexual relationship. It's a normal part of life and it's pretty awful that some people here have a problem with this.

moreyear - I don't think I have been dismissive of the boys? There are 9 leads. 5 are being played by boys and 4 by girls (the script indicates a 7 boy 2 girl split which we couldn't manage). The other 51 children in the cast (41 girls and 10 boys) are in minor roles or chorus because they weren't the best - what's unfair about that? We couldn't give a boy who can't sing in tune or can't act convincingly a large part, he would have been horribly uncomfortable and/or too nervous to do it. We wouldn't have done it to a girl either. A good 40-50% of those who auditioned only wanted chorus roles anyway.

catgirl - yes, of course because they have to cross dress anyway. Our drama dept feels that, as a co-ed schoo, cross dressing looks naff. I think it would be fine but not as good as having the correct sex in the part. That's the main reason why I wouldn't want to teach in a single sex school, I think it does reduce the quality of the productions.

No GBLT members of staff? Or are some staff keeping it quiet because they think they will face discrimination if anybody finds out. Must be very hard for them to keep such a major part of themselves secret like that. No wonder that GBLT youths are 4 times more likely to kill themselves than their straight friends.
The school sounds terrible.

Well, from your OP it doesn't sound like you said:

"Well it's a play. We'll just cast a girl as the Beast as the sex of the person playing a role is not really relevant. We'll keep it as a male character but just have a girl play him"

You said "Unless we make them lesbians"

I don't personally see an issue with them being lesbians, but a) it's not necessary within the play and b) it's a bit more controversial and probably raised more a of a negative / cautious response from your colleagues than the former.

I agree with you that having a girl would be fine but I don't think that requires the play to be changed to make them lesbians (not that I have an issue with that myself)

The quality of the production is probably not something to worry about so much. It's a school production, not the RSC.

I also think if the school can't tell the difference between lesbianism and beastiality those PHSE lessons need some work

poor old shakespeare and those all male cross dressing casts, eh

lol at bestiality - better a beast than another woman in the home counties!

I don't think there'd be discrimination Tiggy. Would it really be that unusual if there aren't any? We only have about 30 staff and all bar 4 of us are married to the opposite sex or in long term heterosexual relationships. So, while there may be some who are hiding it, I'd be quite surprised.

I think the school is wonderful. Is there any other reason why you think it sounds terrible? Other than probably not having homosexual staff members?

I think many people know their sexuality by ages 11 to 13 and it would be interesting and maybe helpful to them to have this plot change. I also don't understand why this issue has so many people foaming at the mouth TBH.

haha catgirl, it wasn't the beast that was under discussion, we have an awesome boy actor to play him.

And no, I didn't mention the discussion we had about girls playing male parts as males in the OP, but I said this later on:

It does make sense and I think it would have been fine. My colleagues disagreed (well 3 out of 4 did) and said it would look very amateur to do that in a co-ed school.Personally I'd say a school is pretty amateur but never mind!

Well I agree withyou it would be fine :)

Also, there is nothing wrong with portraying relationships at this age.
Loving relationships are part of life (or should be) and there is nothing wrong with theatre done by children reflecting this. We are not talking nude scenes and snogging.
FGS half of the kids have probably seen some really vile porn at this point. (This is BAD, but probably true).

Terrible because you said "Colleagues said head and parents would be horrified and absolutely no way could we do that. Totally inappropriate." Discrimination could be in the form of making A 'climate of fear'. "A gay relationship? People would be horrified!" Doesn't sound very GBLT friendly.
And being married? Elton John, Kenny Everett, Alec Guiness, Rock Hudson, Oscar Wilde, Angelina Jolie, Michael Barrymore, Billie Jean King, Cole Porter, Little Richard, etc. All married at some point.

One of my daughters recently came out as gay. She is in Year 8. How do you think she might feel if I showed her this thread (not that I would)?

I think this will attract a lot of negative attention to the school from parents and possibly the press.

ok, Tiggy. The horror wouldn't come from thinking it is wrong to be gay though, but from thinking it is inappropriate for pre pubescent children to be representing the relationship. I disagree with that stance but (judging from the number of people on this thread who think the children are too young) I don't think that that being the majority viewpoint is enough to make the school terrible.

Themumsnot - I'm sorry, I didn't mean to say anything that would hurt you or your daughter, I just don't usually think of even our Y8s as having a sexuality yet. They all seem so young and innocent and don't seem to think about real relationships (the have little games and talk about fancying people etc but no more than that) at all. I'm sure there must be some who do, outside of school, but we don't see the evidence of it at all. Compared to how I remember my year group when I was in Y8 they're all a good 2-3 years less 'mature'. I hope your daughter is being supported at school?

My DP and I both agree that it would be great if they were a bit older or younger. They're the exact wrong age because they are just becoming aware of their sexuality and at that age you get teased to death if people think you like someone of the opposite sex let alone someone of the same sex. I think it's far more likely to be detrimental rather than empowering for gay students. We are both happy that same sex relationships are becoming more normalised in the media - there are several TV shows like Grey's Anatomy and Scandal where central characters are in same sex relationships and none of the other characters bat an eyelid. I think that is a better forum for normalisation of gay relationships than middle school plays.