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Original poster

To think that maybe marriage is more important than I thought?

73 replies

FeuDeSnowyRussie · 07/12/2012 10:09

I've always thought that buying a property together or having a child was a far bigger, more important commitment than getting married. And obviously, loads of people have long, successful relationships without being married, when neither partner is interested in marriage. BUT there seems to be so many people who have a child together and buy a house together, and then one of them wants to get married but the other drags their feet and they eventually decide they don't want to be together after all. It seems like marriage is the only commitment where you are actually committing to each other, not to a child or to a financial investment, and so maybe marriage is quite a good proof that both partners are committed to staying together.

I know this ignores the fact that a few people get married knowing its the wrong thing to do, and people do change and marriages break up. I'm just saying, I've only just realised that maybe I was wrong to think that children and property are proof of a commitment to the person you're doing them with.

OP posts:
WorraLorraTurkey · 07/12/2012 10:57

Having kids together is by far the biggest commitment...although it's a very different one to marriage.

Ironically, many people put far less thought into who they have kids with than who they would/wouldn't marry.

DontmindifIdo · 07/12/2012 10:58

No, buying a house in the uk is a sensible financial decision /investment; deciding to have a child is committing to be a parent to that child, it in no way automatically means you are committing yourself to the other patent. Too many people take what are commitments to areas of family life as a personal commitment to them.

Marriage is a legal commitment to the other partner, and really you only need it at the end of that relationship, either divorce or death. But you can't assume someone who hasn't decided to legally commit to you really means it when they say they have.

MoaningMingeWhimpersAgain · 07/12/2012 11:06

I have found this thread really interesting Smile For me, getting married was about saying 'I have chosen you and you have chosen me', formally. And I preferred to get married before having the DCs too. No religion factor.

DH would have been happy to live together and have children without getting married, I felt that to be willing to do that but not get married didn't really make sense to me. It isn't unconditional though. It depends on us continuing to be decent people, and to not have sex with others, for example.

bowerbird · 07/12/2012 11:09

LRD, but we're not discussing commitment to a child, but to an adult.

LRDtheFeministDude · 07/12/2012 11:12

Well, the OP was discussing it. She mentions having children and buying a house and compares them to marriage.

BookieMonster · 07/12/2012 11:18

Marriage is a legally binding contract affording both parties rights and responsibilities. It is not just a piece of paper.

bowerbird · 07/12/2012 11:25

As the OP says, marriage is the only commitment where you are actually committing to each other. You say you're "not comfortable" with judging different forms of commitment. Doesn't make them worse people, does it? Er...

Really? I think commitment to another person, as difficult as that is to sustain sometimes is very important. I don't think some half-ass commitment is actually very kind, loving or respectful and I'm completely comfortable saying that.

PanickingIdiot · 07/12/2012 11:26

what's wrong with someone's consistent love being for their child, but not for a partner?

On paper, nothing. But if a bloke told me "I'd like you to carry my child for nine months, give birth to it and raise it, I'd love it consistently for the rest of my life, although I can't say how long I'd stick with you", then my response would be "no, thanks". I'm not interested in being a hired uterus, nor a single parent (as far as foreseeable, at least.)

bowerbird · 07/12/2012 11:27

OP, are you married, or are you considering getting married? What prompted the post?

doyouwantfrieswiththat · 07/12/2012 11:29

It's as important as you make it, as long as you both feel the same way. Dp is a divorcee after his ex-wife's adultery so I guess marriage wasn't the same commitment for her as for him.

Legal stuff concerning our children & each other would not need so much clarification if we were married, but I would like marriage to be a romantic rather than a pragmatic gesture.

Incidentally I was always under the impression that marriage arose as a consequence of woman being property passed from father to future husband, not that it has those connotations now of course.

LRDtheFeministDude · 07/12/2012 11:29

Fair enough, we'll agree to differ bower.

If you want to know, I was thinking about mates who didn't intend to be married or in any sort of relationship with their child's other biological parent. But nice to know you feel happy judging them for that.

bowerbird · 07/12/2012 11:29

Panicking - what wouldn't you find that a devastatingly attractive proposal? I'm shocked.

aamia · 07/12/2012 11:33

I have found being married very settling. We have both said, in front of family and friends, that we will love and support each other through good and bad. The bit of paper is just for changing names and stuff.

bowerbird · 07/12/2012 11:36

LRD spare me the judgy accusation. It's silly. We're on an internet forum discussing marriage and commitment, and we're being asked for our judgements and opinions.

LRDtheFeministDude · 07/12/2012 11:39

You said you feel happy; I said nice to know.

I'm fine with people giving their opinions but I happen to think yours are pretty shallow, unpleasant, and if you think about it for a split second, quite homophobic, given that gay couples can't get married. That doesn't make them worse parents.

I don't think single mothers or fathers who choose to be single mothers or fathers are automatically bad parents either, FWIW.

I'm perfectly entitled to judge you, so please don't tell me what I can and can't post again.

Original poster
FeuDeSnowyRussie · 07/12/2012 11:52

Hi, sorry I disappeared to have a shower!

No LRD you are completely right that people can be excellent parents without being married or planning to stay together in the traditional sense of living as a couple. And I agree with whoever said that the parents (if there are two parents) being nice to each other benefits the child. And i think most people are hoping that they will stay with their partner and raise the child together. So thats why, in my mind, I think that if you're in a couple and hoping to stay together and start a family, marriage is better evidence that the other person is committed to you than having a child or buying a house.

It was something on another thread that prompted the post. Someone was upset that their DP was dragging his feet re marriage, and another poster pointed out that just because they'd had a child together, doesn't mean he was committed to her, just to the child.

And yes, I am married, I have no DCs (not planning any), but I was never bothered about marriage before DH proposed. I'd actually said to him I was worried that marriage would make us feel trapped and obliged to stay together rather than waking up together everyday out of choice. And now I'm married I'm surprised at how nice and how it does feel slightly different to not being married. I would always have got married if I was going to have DCs though, I think.

OP posts:
LRDtheFeministDude · 07/12/2012 11:55

That makes sense, thanks for explaining to me.

I don't know if I saw the same thread as you, but the thing that worries me with that sort of situation isn't to do with the nature of marriage, it's that two people obviously have different ideas and haven't talked them through (or haven't been honest). That's a problem whether you're married or not, I think.

Furoshika · 07/12/2012 11:57

I got married for the personal commitment, dh ditto.
However I know quite a few couples who are equally committed, just not legally. It's a tricky one.

Original poster
FeuDeSnowyRussie · 07/12/2012 12:01

Oh yes, absolutely. Not actually being able to talk to each other or be honest is the main cause of most problems!

OP posts:
NiceOneCenturion · 07/12/2012 12:11

People often talk of having a child as being a greater commitment than marriage, but it is just a different kind of commitment, and is only really to the child.

My marriage vows meant that my DH and I wanted to commit to providing a stable home and family for each other, even if that was only ever to comprise the two of us. I saw marriage as starting a family, regardless of whether it would later include children. We were the most important people in each other' s lives and marriage ensures there is never any confusion over that where finances, medical matters etc are concerned.

Since having a child, seeing the attachment my son has to my husband, and the security he seems to draw from having us both around him, I have realised that actually, preserving and protecting our relationship is probably one of the most important things we can do for him. We may fail in the attempt, but I think marriage, like pregnancy, is a thing you undertake in hope, and it sets the tone for how I personally want to live my life and raise my children.

I feel I met the right person though, so in some respects it was the easiest decision I've ever made, I understand why others choose not to, that's just how it is for me.

MousyMouse · 07/12/2012 12:20

we got married for legal reasons.
it is very difficult and exoensive (if at all possible) to write up wills and other documents, especially when children are involved and also when assets/family are in/from different countries.
far far easier to just get married (less than 100£ in the registry office).

Startail · 07/12/2012 12:20

DF has just got married after 20 years with her DP.

Sadly they have never had DCs. For her it's pensions etc. that it simplifies hugly (he is lot older than her).

Also I think she also realised that if her lovely Dad was to see her married it had to be now.

bowerbird · 07/12/2012 12:41

LRD I really don't wish to get into a slanging match, but I cannot let an accusation of homophobia go unchallenged. You make appalling and completely false assumptions about someone you don't know because you are not clear in your posts. I won't trot out my gay-friendly credentials here, but believe me, you have completely misunderstood me.

All this "uncomfortable with different levels of commitment" rather than opening up the discussion to include biological parents that were involved in conception but not in a relationship, and what specifically this might mean for gay or lesbian couples. The OP was asking about marriage, which unfortunately at this time applies (as I wholeheartedly support marriage for gay and lesbian couples) to heterosexuals only. I have many skills, but mind-reading isn't one of them.

LRDtheFeministDude · 07/12/2012 12:45

What's unclear? Marriage is only available to straight people. There is an element of homophobia here, whether you intended it or not.

I'm sorry you didn't think about it before you posted, but that isn't my fault.

bowerbird · 07/12/2012 12:47

Mousy you still need a will! Please don't make the assumption that if you're married it's all taken care of. It isn't.