To get a bit angry when people who aren't parents judge children and parenting

[PartyFops]

(Sorry - slightly facebook themed)

Someone who is not a parent has just posted on facebook a news article from the daily fail about how grandparents think that laid back parenting has led to badly behaved children. ( I probably agree)

She commented on the link saying that there is nothing worse than bad mannered children and saying that all children should ask to leave the table, be polite, not interrupt, don't talk with mouth full etc etc. I completely agree that this would be lovely in an ideal world if every child behaved like that, but it really isn't that easy, and can be a long road of really hard work to get children to learn their manners. And also some children are easier than others.

Grrr just makes me so angry that a non parent can be so judgy!

rant over.

Why should people without children not be allowed an opinion?

FWIW, I agree with her.

She commented on the link saying that there is nothing worse than bad mannered children and saying that all children should ask to leave the table, be polite, not interrupt, don't talk with mouth full etc

^ this isn't judging anyones parenting, this is an opinion. Are non parents not allowed opinions about manners?

I agree with her too. She has an opinion about how children should behave, not what the parents are or aren't doing.

Because being a parent makes you an expert on children??

Generally, YABU, because people who do not have children have no less of a right to an opinion than parents. And there is no reason to think their opinions are any less valid.

I have insisted on all things on that post, even with SN (autistic and learning difficulties) so I can't understand why anyone would think its difficult to do; you just have to be firm and consistent

I think those things and I am a parent whose two year old is a mess with manners. I comment on gay marriage (positively). I did when I was neither gay nor married.

YABU, unless you keep all children in some bubble so childless people never have to have any contact with them.

YANBU. Until I had children I honestly had no idea about them (I know this isn't the case for everyone btw) so didn't offer my (rubbish) opinions.

I agree with her 100%

YABU, I disagree.

I agree with her. Children should have manners.

Being a parent makes you an expert in your child(ren) only. Not children in general, child development, early years education, paediatric health etc. So people who are experts in these areas have very valid opinions, and it's usually in a parent's best interest to listen to them and take some advice on board.

On a wider level, we all have to care about how children are raised because it is in our mutual interest to see a happy, productive and caring generation of adults emerge. And in everyday life, we all come into contact with each other and have to get along.

So yes, everyone is entitled to hold or voice their opinions. Their opinions might be poorly justified and so you can dismiss them, or they might give you something to think about. But you have no place to wish to silence them.

How many opinions do you hold which relate to situations totally outside of your own experience? Probably thousands. And how many more opinions do you have about situations within your experience? Thousands more. I'm quite sure none of us can claim to be non-judgemental.

FWIW I agree with her too. But I just feel that some people think that things like having children with impeccable manners is easy, but it takes a long time of hard work of being firm and consistent.

Maybe its just me, dd is starting her terrible twos at 19 months and if she doesn't want to do something she wont do it, and she doesn't really understand me properly to be able to reason with her. But these things start early and take a long time to instill.

I agree with her and I don't have children either.

Some people seem to be incapable of controlling their children. Talk about make a rod for your own back.

She never said it was easy, or offered any advice on how to get children to have manners though

I think if she was actually directly criticising you directly, or telling any parent how she thought they should be raising their children, you might have a point.

But she's (presumably) posted an article on her own Facebook wall, and given her opinion on it. Not trying to tell anyone directly what to do. Nothing wrong with that. She lives in a world with children in it and has opinions on how she would like them to behave.

I don't have children and I guess I do have opinions.

I would snigger a bit at someone being passive-aggressive in commenting on badly behaved children without having them, though - this is a golden opportunity for you to file away in your memory and refer to later if she has kids!

YABU. It's fine to have an opinion on stuff which you don't have direct experience of. I'm fairly certain I'm totally against apartheid even although I've never lived in South Africa and I'm not black.

However, YANBU, as I know where you're coming from. Pre-DC's, I had all sorts of ideas on what I was going to tolerate and not going to tolerate - but I now realise it's not always as simple as that.

I think it's so unfair on children to not install good manners in them, it's such a disadvantage in life not to be able to have natural good manners.

Anyone can have an opinion on children, they are a part of society.

I don't know anything about carpentry but I can spot a well made table when I see one.

YABcompletelyU to get angry when "people who aren't parents judge children and parenting".

Why on earth should they not be allowed an opinion on parenting? Being childless doesn't make you stupid.

ANYONE, with or without children might not be able to comprehend another persons parenting experience, but everyone is entitled to an opinion.

YABU, and sound very chippy/defensive. She didn't say it was easy. She made an observation which I would guess the majority of people, parents and non-parents, would agree with.

There is nothing worse than bad mannered children
They'll be basing that opinion on other people's children they've observed, they don't need their own children to come to that conclusion.