To say we can’t afford to visit DF’s family at Christmas

[Ambivalence]

My DF ( fiancé) is pretty hopeless with money and so I have been nagging him for ages to prepare a list of his incomings/ outgoings so that we can prepare a joint budget. I have also been nagging him to check his finances before committing to things, rather than just spending the money and asking me to bail him out. He is not good at living within his means, which I realise is unlikely to ever change as he is 46!

He has now just texted me with the conclusion that we should not go to Holland for Christmas as it would be cheaper to stay at home ( he doesn?t get paid time off anyway).

I have texted back to say we will discuss it tonight. I feel really mean to agree with him, and let him spend Christmas without his family and friends but it would be a lesson to him about working out what you can afford before making plans ( we just went to Holland a week ago for his birthday ? he booked the wrong flights and so lost 2 days wages as a result, and spent £200 hosting a party in a bar for his friend).

I am a bit annoyed with him about money anyway as he has been in a low paid call centre (£9/ hour) job since he moved to London in the spring ? despite promising to look for something in his field and at a professional salary comparable to the job he left ( her hasn?t put much effort into this), and he is disorganised about giving me money towards the bills ( no rent as I pay the mortgage on my flat) and I have been asking him for months to set up a weekly standing order/ direct debit to me, as he is paid weekly and his budgeting skills are poor.

I feel really mean saying we can?t afford to go to see his family, but in the end I think this might be a lesson learned for him. He never saves anything for a rainy day. I have just had to spend my rainy day fund on some unexpected building work and so don?t have funds to bail him out. Should I agree with him we can?t afford the trip at Christmas or be kind and pay for it?

[GoldQuintessenceAndMyhrr]

"It is NOT NORMAL to need the service of Relate before you have even GOT married."

I was just thinking that Pantofino.

Most people see such serious relationship issues, that need Relate, as big red flags, they dont go on to marry somebody they are so incompatible with.

[Bunbaker]

Please don't marry this poor excuse of a human being. He will drag you down with him.

You sound lovely and deserve so much better. I agree with DowagersHump that your counsellor sounds pretty useless. You don't need a man like this to improve your self esteem.

[violetbunny]

OP, I also moved countries to be with my DP (funnily enough, also from the Netherlands to the UK). I have done everything I can to make sure I am supporting myself - I did everything I could to find a decent job here (which I was lucky enough to succeed in) and now make sure I contribute towards all my share of the bills. My point is, although I know my partner would have been more than willing to help me out and support me financially in moving over here, I would feel terrible if I didn't feel I'd done absolutely everything I could to make sure I was self-supporting. Even before I moved here I was putting a lot of time into job hunting and saving as much as possible. Regardless of whether your partner has managed to secure a good job here or not, it's the attitude and lack of motivation that would really worry me. You don't have to put up with this!

[MrsHoarder]

Don't marry a man to change him. Really, he's being honest enough to show you what he's like before you marry. Take him as he comes or leave him, but don't assume you can change him.

And if you do choose to take him as he comes remember that is what you chose to do. That you have chosen a life of managing someone else's finances without their full co-operation and enthusiasm (its different if one person has the ability to manage finances and the other cba but is happy to follow their lead).

Love gets you so far. After that you need respect and trust.

[Pantofino]

PLease don't buy plane tickets. Arrange to see your most annoying family members over Xmas. See how he copes. If he loves you he will survive one such outing.

[PessaryPam]

Stop loving him, it's not compulsory. God knows I met and dated some complete tools in my time but allow yourself to conclude he is not worth a toss. Please.

[Ambivalence]

With all your posts the scales. are dropping from my eyes tonight.
I have a lot of thinking and work to do.

thank you to all of you who have taken the time to advise me. i so appreciate it.

[Cahoootz]

Is the wedding booked?

[Pantofino]

Please, please listen OP - you are worth so much better, I never got together with my DH or or had a baby til well in my 30s. My dh is not perfect by any means - but what we do have is a future vision. Where we are going to be - and WHO will be paying for it. And ie - it is not all ME.

[Ambivalence]

Yes, the wedding is booked. but he has behaved appallingly tonight, very spoilt and has stomped off to the sofa when i asked him v reasonably to have his budget ready for our relate appointment . am understanding lots of the posts now.
Pretty annoyed with myself for being a fool.
Still holding out hope we can sort things if i am firm though

[GoldQuintessenceAndMyhrr]

Firm is something a parent has to be with a child. Not a woman with her partner.

[ImagineJL]

If and when you have a child with this man, your view of him will change dramatically. I reckon that a lot of women have very nurturing instincts, and often end up "looking after" their partners.

However, when you have an actual baby, suddenly you have a genuinely helpless person to care for, not just a lazy lump who finds it easier to delegate life's difficult tasks to their wife.

The moment you have a baby, your priorities will shift. It won't be a case of you tolerating his silliness with money because you love him. It'll be him depriving your precious child of things it needs because he'd rather spend the money on lattes in Costa or whatever. You will resent him for it and come to hate him. And he will be jealous of this child, who has taken not only his wife's attention, but also some of the money that used to come his way.

Your own father's story is very much the exception, and if you're banking on the same thing happening to you then you taking a massive gamble.

[Ambivalence]

Thank you all for your support to tonight. it has been hard night.

[Pantofino]

OP - imagine yourself on Maternity Leave. Exhausted, bruised,brand new baby - no work for a year. You just want to sit in bed, you have had no sleep, and won't be able to bankroll the father for the foreseeable. Imagine your OH and what he will be like. Will he support you financially, emotionally?

[Alibabaandthe40nappies]

Imagine that is a great post.

OP - I hope you get some sleep and that things are clearer in the morning. Nice to see that your 'DF' reacted in such a mature and considerate way...
I really would think about relying less on your counsellor's opinion. To me, she does not sound like a wise woman.

[GoldQuintessenceAndMyhrr]

Or will he throw a tantrum that you are pissed off with him for his spending, when all he wants is to go out, be social, etc?

Will he be pissed off that your maternity package is less than he hoped, and you actually have to watch your expenses?

Will he be able to do his fair share of baby care? Handle slepless nights, and drag himself out of bed to change a nappy so that you can rest in between feeding?

If you have problems getting him to budget now, imagine what it will be when you have to spend a couple of grand on baby items, and your income drops!

What will you do when you realize that you need a bigger flat? Maybe a house even, with a garden for your child? What if your salary alone is not going to be sufficient for this? A bigger car? Paying for flights for your child also, to go see family in Holland?

What if you can just manage to get a mortgage for a bigger place (either with just your, or with your combined salaries), but this means skimping and saving and budgeting even harder to pay bills, and he kicks up a fuss that you cant keep him in the same style he has become accustomed to?

[MrsTerryPratchett]

Sorry OP but I am wishing that your fiance acts like this more. Because it is showing that he is unwilling to change, unwilling to do the most basic thing, write a budget. A 46 year old stomping off because his future wife wants to plan their financial future together, it speaks volumes.

Take care. Have a good sleep.

[lovebunny]

what do you want him for? you spend all your time nagging him.

[Pandemoniaa]

Have you actually read this thread, lovebunny? Or are you merely launching an attention seeking missile?

[Morloth]

Cut your losses.

[Offred]

I don't think you do love him really, if you did you wouldn't feel desperate to change him. It is your dad that you love and you feel he is so unique and special because of the affection commanded by his perceived similarity to your dad. All the "I've never met anyone who compares" is simply that you haven't met anyone who is quite so similar and therefore you feel some kind of instinctive affection - big mistake!

This will not work out well, he is not your father and you have already wasted so much of your life on him for no reason. He isn't something special, there are so many like him around, I'd even perhaps argue that your obvious and crippling non-existing self-respect must be being continually eroded by being with/loving him which in turn keeps you with/loving him. It is a mess.

You will never change him and your mum didn't change your dad, he probably just grew up, whatever it was he did, he did it all by himself and your mum is deluded if she thinks it was down to her. Does your mum still parent your dad? I'd be willing to bet she does because "I corrected his behaviour" is a very parental attitude.

As others have said he is not giving you anything to suggest any hope he will ever change.

28 is very different to 35 if you think you want to have a child so your mum was taking a much smaller risk than you.

The counsellor is probably equally frustrated as us about your insistence on keeping him and making it work. If you come in convinced you will not leave under any circumstances then what else can they help with when you are paying them for couples counselling other than your pointless budgeting and trying to "help" him be more responsible with money? I don't think the counsellor saying you are both committed to making it work is a compliment, it is like saying you are both really committed to banging your heads together. I don't think you need relate counselling, you are not going to change him, neither is relate.

I suggest you have individual counselling and you postpone or cancel the wedding until he treats you as a partner not a parent and you can treat him as a partner and not a child which will be never. You need to deal with why you see such a disrespectful loser as your cornerstone, this is your biggest obstacle not that you looooove him soooo much, that is just bollocks, it is totally irrational to give your love, trust, money and time to someone like that.

[Offred]

(He will never change because this is how he was raised to be and why he has picked you to marry, he won't want to be with you if you try to change him)

[GoldQuintessenceAndMyhrr]

[aamia]

He has at least tried to make a sensible monetary decision. Back him up or he won' t bother again!

[Offred]

See I don't think he has tried to make a sensible financial decision, this is just how he gets op to pay for things "oh woe is me I can't go home for Christmas, waaaaahhhh!" Accompanied no doubt with some moping and grumpiness designed to make her feel bad "oh I'm just so sad/miss my family" or worried that he will ruin her christmas or him feeling bad makes her feel insecure in the relationship. When the op feels guilty or gives in for a quiet life or to feel more secure in his affection for her he says "oh WOW, you are so amazing, are you sure? Thanks!" and she feels loved and valued... Is how I'd be willing to bet it goes...