To say we can’t afford to visit DF’s family at Christmas

[Ambivalence]

My DF ( fiancé) is pretty hopeless with money and so I have been nagging him for ages to prepare a list of his incomings/ outgoings so that we can prepare a joint budget. I have also been nagging him to check his finances before committing to things, rather than just spending the money and asking me to bail him out. He is not good at living within his means, which I realise is unlikely to ever change as he is 46!

He has now just texted me with the conclusion that we should not go to Holland for Christmas as it would be cheaper to stay at home ( he doesn?t get paid time off anyway).

I have texted back to say we will discuss it tonight. I feel really mean to agree with him, and let him spend Christmas without his family and friends but it would be a lesson to him about working out what you can afford before making plans ( we just went to Holland a week ago for his birthday ? he booked the wrong flights and so lost 2 days wages as a result, and spent £200 hosting a party in a bar for his friend).

I am a bit annoyed with him about money anyway as he has been in a low paid call centre (£9/ hour) job since he moved to London in the spring ? despite promising to look for something in his field and at a professional salary comparable to the job he left ( her hasn?t put much effort into this), and he is disorganised about giving me money towards the bills ( no rent as I pay the mortgage on my flat) and I have been asking him for months to set up a weekly standing order/ direct debit to me, as he is paid weekly and his budgeting skills are poor.

I feel really mean saying we can?t afford to go to see his family, but in the end I think this might be a lesson learned for him. He never saves anything for a rainy day. I have just had to spend my rainy day fund on some unexpected building work and so don?t have funds to bail him out. Should I agree with him we can?t afford the trip at Christmas or be kind and pay for it?

[Paiviaso]

"The advice I am ignoring is to leave him, because I don?t intend to do this."

So then here's what is going to happen. He is going to continue to be the same man you've always known - financially irresponsible, immature, and selfish. You are going to marry him anyways. His failings will still be there after your married, and as the years pass you will become increasingly embittered.

Happy to help.

[ifso]

you must be exhausted putting up with a man of this age behaving like this

you're carrying all responsibilities of life for him

do you really want to get married? when is your wedding?

[HoFlippinHo]

I've only just seen this thread and my first reaction is that, to an outsider, it looks like you are paying him to be with you. Where's your dignity? Marrying someone who will pay nothing towards the wedding? Living with a man you have to bail out again and again. He's looking for a mother substitute to prop him up financially and he's found you.

[Ambivalence]

The point of this threads was to get opinions on whether I am over reacting to his spending/ lack of budgeting etc or not. I am surprised how unanimous opinions were that he is financially and emotionally abusive ? so I am printing out this thread to take to tomorrow?s relate session.

I am also considering postponing the registration of the marriage (civil ceremony) and will certainly not be having children unless and until this is resolved.

[MrsTerrysChocolateOrange]

You won't leave him and he knows it.
You will marry him anyway and he knows it.
You won't leave him once you're married and he knows it.
You want children and once you are married he is your only option for this and he knows it.
He is lying to you about money.
He is feckless with money.
He expects women in his life to bail him out and his DM won't be around for ever.

Tell me where his rock bottom is because I don't see it. Please print this out for your counselling and keep a copy. In ten years read it again. You will see it with different eyes, I promise.

[Ambivalence]

I have emailed this thread to him and our relate therapist

[Offred]

If you do not leave him, having discovered that you are incompatible and you continue to try and change him then YOU are abusive. Reading all the threads you sound like a right pair.

[StuntGirl]

"So then here's what is going to happen. He is going to continue to be the same man you've always known - financially irresponsible, immature, and selfish. You are going to marry him anyways. His failings will still be there after your married, and as the years pass you will become increasingly embittered."

"You won't leave him and he knows it.
You will marry him anyway and he knows it.
You won't leave him once you're married and he knows it.
You want children and once you are married he is your only option for this and he knows it.
He is lying to you about money.
He is feckless with money.
He expects women in his life to bail him out and his DM won't be around for ever.

Tell me where his rock bottom is because I don't see it. Please print this out for your counselling and keep a copy. In ten years read it again. You will see it with different eyes, I promise."

I thought these two points were so salient they deserved repeating. This is your future OP. Think about it.

[drcrab]

Do you get some kind of martyr like kick out of 'saving' him from his plight and then getting everyone to love you more because you have saved this person from dire straits?

My goodness woman. Take a good hard look at all the posts here. If you are my sister I'd be shaking you real hard (metaphorically) and telling you off. And I'll be telling our mum everything you've said here because there's no way as a mum I would want my daughter to suffer that. Regardless of how much she loves him. Scratch that... How much she thinks she loves him.

[Offred]

Drcrab - her mum did the same thing with her dad and it messed them all up by the sounds of it but none of them will admit it. I doubt she'd be bothered.

[Ambivalence]

I am bothered, I do realise I am recreating the situation with my parents, but have no idea how else to proceed. I think LTB is not the way forward, at all - I tried that 8 years ago and it didn't work! It was me who re-ignited this relationship, and it is not because I am broody, I am not that bothered about having kids, it was because that relationship not working out was my biggest regret.

A lifetime si a long time to spend missing someone.

[HECTheHallsWithRowsAndFolly]

So he has got you subbing him while he spends his own money on crap and doesn't pay his fair share.

And he has somehow convinced you that he's crap with money?

Sounds to me like he's excellent with money.

He gets to keep all his and spend it on shite while you keep a roof over his head.

[HECTheHallsWithRowsAndFolly]

x post.

Marry him, if that's what you want. Have your happy ever after, if he's the love of your life. The one you can't live without.

but go into it knowing and accepting that he will spend the money you earn on crap and/or you'll have a lifetime of budgeting for him and treating him like a teenager. Maybe giving him an 'allowance'.

Understand and accept that you will be paying his way. you have the option of doing the one pot thing. Everything into the family is equally belonging to both of you. No your money and his money. So it's ok if he spends what you've earned. Because it's all family money.

If you're ok with that, then there's no problem.

We do that. Doesn't matter who brings what in, it's all ours.

Just don't proceed and at the same time have resentments. You've chosen this. So you need to be happy about it.

[drcrab]

8 years is not a lifetime. The next 50 years IS. Wake up.

My aunt left our country in her late 30s to go live somewhere else because she had no partner, fed up with her life, job etc. she found a partner and married him and had a daughter who's now in her mid 20s. For the most part they are happy.

The point is: you can always start again at any age. You can. I've fallen for boyfriends and broken up with them. Felt like shit, cried buckets, went round a store in a rural part of Germany crying my eyes out...! Felt if never get over this particular person. But I did.

Not dissing your feelings. We have all been there. But it's ridiculous that you are wanting to throw away your life, potential financial worth, your current financial state for a man who isn't your equal!!!!!

My dh doesn't earn what I earn. Coupled with his redundancy and his setting up shop, we have taken huge hits. But he pulls his weight. Of course we get mad at each other - not perfect. But he is an equal.

I've also had v highly qualified friends who've decided to partner up with 'less qualified' OHs. Not an issue either because there is mutual respect. You mentioned v early on that you started to lose your respect for him. If that's the case then wtf are you still with him????

And I'm sorry but I cannot believe your mother is telling you to lay off the nagging. Unless she really doesn't care for you. If I suffered my whole life with a feckless dh who I had to control and reign in like all my kids, no way in hell would I want my children to suffer the same way. What would I get in return??

[Alibabaandthe40nappies]

It is also a long time to spend resenting someone.

What Hecate said though. Do it if you must, but accept the situation as it stands if you do. Otherwise you will be bitter and resentful and end up hating him.

[drcrab]

That relationship not working out is your biggest regret. And now you are back to try again. Great. But he's not trying!!! For whatever reason he's just not that into you. Really.

It's just someone who you thought was your best friend. Turns out you are always lending her money, buying her meals, buying her expensive stuff, listening to her stories. But she's not reciprocating. Time to stop that friendship then.

And it's not the same as saying ok it's a relationship like those sahp and one working parent. You can't even trust him to be able to do the shop without stopping for a £5 glass of wine. So even if you give him £50 and a shopping list, he can always say whoops there was no cheese and sneak off for his fags/drink. So what you'll end up doing is do the shop yourself (and he saves himself a trip and another task to do!!). Ditto for kids. Will he actually take the child to the toddler group or music group? Or will he spend that £5 on crap and then lie to you? Your 8 month old won't be able to tell you that they were at music or at soft play...!

[ilovesooty]

Is your counsellor doing any therapeutic work with you or just dealing with budgets?

What are you expecting her to do with the contents of this thread?

And she shouldn't be engaging with one party while doing couples therapy - much less doing individual counselling with one half of the couple. What in heaven's name is she playing at?

[CaHoHoHootz]

Would you have been so eager to rekindle this relationship if you had known that he had not matured during the time you were apart?

[ZZZenAgain]

try to sort big things out before you get married. I don't know if you two will have a happy marriage or not because we don't know all the good sides but it doesn't sound to me as if you are entirely ready yet.

[Offred]

You didn't get over him because in the interim period you did not do any work on overcoming the crap imprinted from your childhood or the crap being taught to you now from your mother. This is nothing to do with you or him, this is you proving to your mother she didn't make a massive mistake with her marriage.

[FellatioNelson]

Completely and totally agree with what Hec said at 20:30:30

After 11 pages, she's managed to sum it all up on one small paragraph.

Either accept him as he is and stop wringing your hands over it, or leave.


I am actually quite alarmed that you busy planning to marry a man you need to go to Relate couples counselling with.

That's not normal.

[BadLad]

It was a long time ago in the thread, but a few posters have asked how on earth an adult can be crap with money and need a bailout from their parents.

Well, it is not at all uncommon - have a gander at the moneysavingexpert forums. And there are plenty of success stories there about people getting out of their mess.

But you can only help those who want to be helped, and the OP's DF is sounding like quite the opposite of that. And why should he want anything to change? The status quo is his having his cake and eating it.

Seeing as you aren't going to leave him for anything, you don't have any ultimatum or consequence for him if he doesn't change his behaviour. How about a trial separation, until he gets some sort of sense into his finances?

You'd be doing it for him as much as for yourself.

I think I'd also be tempted to get on the phone to his mother and ask her to stop bailing him out. Short term hassles for long term solution.

[StuntGirl]

I agree, you have two options:

Accept this is how things will always be and marry him.

Or LTB.

[Whocansay]

OP, did you come on here wanting people to go "There, there, he's lovely really, tut men!"?

The fact that you are going to send this to him when you have clearly stated that ultimately you will put up with his behaviour, is astounding!

I really hope you don't bring a child into this car crash of a relationship.