to think that if men automatically got residence of children they'd leave less often?

[NotANaturalGeordie]

- Yes, I am expecting a bun fight--

I think that if, in the event that a husband wants to end the relationship he was automatically expected by society and law to have majority residence/custody of the children (i.e. he couldn't leave them behind and 'move on') that less men would leave (see the relationships board).

No RL examples or axe to grind on my part - opinions please.....

well maybe back to court and a slap on the wrist, but no more.

i didn't say it wasn't best. i asked if mothers didn't want 50/50 because it wasn't best for their children. 50/50 may be best for some, but i dont believe it is best for all. there is no 'one size fits all'.

And to answer who are they warring with and it takes 2 to make a war, NRPS (of both sexes) are in a lose lose situation arent they.

If you ask me, mothers who use their children like that, are warring with their own offspring.

I get you, i miss interpreted what you said. Thanks for clarifying.

"I think it because of the amount of upset it causes on MN and it is nothing to do with the DC- the mother doesn't want the step mother putting them to bed etc half the week."

yes this is true in all cases

could it be that the ones who post on MN are posting because they have a problem they want advice with? why would they post to say "50/50 is working great, i really am happy with it. that is all"

time how are NRPs in a lose lose situation?

because if they fight to see their children, they are seen as the "baddies" taking poor mum to court and upsetting her more, and if they dont fight, so as not to further damage the children, then they are seen as feckless parents who dont care. I have seen this happen to both male and female parents, the penalties for not obeying court orders, there arent really any in practical terms.

Until recent legal aid changes, NRPs tended to be financially penalised as well if things did go to court.

I left my ex, yes my career suffered, but as far as I am concerned I had the joy and pleasure of bringing up my DC, ex didnt.

And I am very easy going as far as contact is concerned, I believe it is best for children to spend as much time with NRP as is practicably possible and have been flexible in order to accomodate that.

As I said though, I am very particular about who I socialise with.

I would bloody love it if my ExH would do any parenting whatsoever. He has no excuse other than not really wanting to do it. I can only dream of 50/50.

And there are attitudes above that explain to some degree why I am not pushing at an open door, or even one that is ajar.

I don't believe 50/50 is ever best for the children. It might be fairest for the parents, but it's not best for the children, and they are the only ones that really matter.

Adults wouldn't prefer to have two homes that they have to have all their things split between, to have to go home to a different house at the end of each day. Wy does anyone think that children will want it? They might get used to it, but I doubt they'd actually choose it.

I say this as someone who very much co parents successfully with my ex and has children who feel like they have two homes. But they have one primary home and we wanted they for them because we both believe that it creates a more stable environment for our children to grow up in. They are people, not commodities to be shared.

what makes you think all NRP's have a choice of either fighting or not fighting?

like line i would love my EXP to have said on the day we decided to split "so who is going to stay here with the dcs?" he didn't, he packed his stuff and called his mum to pick him up then said bye to our eldest.

i would love him to have said, "i'm going to get a house so the dcs can stay with me half the time" he didn't, he said "i'll be in touch" and then didn't get in touch because he was too busy going on holiday and going out drinking and celebrating hsi new single man status.

i would love my ex to say "shall we work out the holidays so we both have equal time with dcs?" he doesn't he just turns up, has them for a few hours, drops them off an hour after he said he will and disappears for another few weeks til he finds himself with an empty saturday afternoon.

believe me, there would be no fight if he wanted to see more of our dcs.

Thanks outraged im off to slit my wrists.

my ex also has no limit (other than himself) to his earning potential. he doesn't have to pay childcare from his salary to allow him to work. he doesn't have to arrange and pay for babysitters to enjoy a night out, he doesn't have to miss time off work if one of the dcs is ill, he doesn't have to think of packed lunches, clean uniforms, signed permission slips and a dozen other things before he leaves the house in the morning. he doesn't have to rush home from work so he doesn't get charged a late fee from the nursery and then quickly get home and get a healthy dinner into small children before they are too tired or beyond hungry to sit and eat it. he doesn't have to cancel rare coffee dates with friends because a child is ill or a babysitter (or EX!) didn't turn up.

yes my ex sounds very much as if he is losing

But Skye - if he had stayed, so he didn't have to have his DD, that doesn't mean he would have been a)not having an affair b) a good husband c) a good father as the emotional separation of continuing in his behaviour led to a break down of the marriage in all but name.
That's not a better situation to be in for the health and wellbeing of the spouse and child of the 'absent' parent. Some may remain married in situaions like this as the spouse has an affair, or as time goes on, more than one of varying degrees of involvement - that isn't a life for the children however much one could kid themselves they were quite happy and it was a mainly security based choice.

It's not the solution. It is a way to kill all of your self respect.
Actual tangible enforcing of and punishment for breaking - maintenance and visitation agreements for both RP and NRPs is necessary and long overdue. LPs residet or NR are getting shafted all over the country in one way or the other. With very little legal redress that means anything - if they can afford it.

My point on these threads has been that there is an inequity in career chances, after a father leaves unexpectedly, that women have been unable to plan for, and that they are left structurally less able to address; and that this is tolerated politically.

In a way dissections of individual cases just feed into the zeitgeist that it's up to woman to make the 'right' individual decisions to sort themselves out.

Puds, I didn't mean to upset and I'm sure you know if your arrangement is working for your child. I should imagine that if your ex lives on the same street as you then a 50/50 situation would be as good as it can be.

It probably would for us if my ex lived that close, it would actually be really nice! If anything gets forgotten it could be retrievd easily, the child has the same local friends, same route to school, has easy access to the other parent if they want it, it's completely different to a situation where the parents live half an hours drive or more away from each other.

FWIW, I don't think my situation is perfect either, I'd much rather my children were being brought up in one home with parents who love each other, but it was never going to happen.

Honestly Outraged i have no idea if its working. She seems fine, but then im sure i seemed fine to my parents. Its a recent thing, so im shitting myself that im going to make the wrong decision and fuck her up forever

Santa - I havent said all NRPs, I think extremes of either end, are thankfully in the minority, most RPs are reasonable, most NRPs are decent, those at either end of the spectrum get away with murder.

What my children deserve is not to have to be brought up in a house that is falling apart, with a mother who cannot achieve her career potential and earn the money that they need, because Daddy is availing himself of his right to not do any parenting.

ok, you didn't say some, but i accept that's what you meant.

I think you'd know about it if it wasn't working puds. From the sounds of it you are on the look out for any problems so would spot it if there were any. You could always talk to her teacher and see if there seems to be a difference in her at school.

How are you getting on with her Dad?

^That is incorrect - my friend has two children, one predominantly resides with her, the other with the EX-H ...... he pays her £800pcm CM, and she pays him £200 PCM CM ..... all through the CSA books

One would rationally think tjat if there was a 50/50 split on childrens main home there would be an embargo on playing tennjis with the money.

Hypothetically, if there was a true 50/50 split on residency, the child/ren would indeed be ounced around like tenis balls - and which parent would assume the responsibility for something simply like paying for school dinners? one would assume the other had , or you would have endeless text tennis regaring 'its your turn to do tue/weds, I did mon, thurs Fri, those are your days next week'.

So as lovely as the 50/50 thingis - realistically, a child needs a home base.^

OpheliaPayneAgain Two people divorcing can agree any maintenance agreements they want. It is perfectly possible and legal for zero maintenance payments to be made and for that to be the legal agreement. My ex and I have made true 50/50 work for 2 years, it's really not that difficult or anything the way you describe if you have the right set-up for it and the will to make it work. There is also something called 'Parallel parenting' which is a shared custody arrangements for parents who are in conflict.

Shared custody (not necessarily 50/50) is shown to have the same outcomes for children as non-divorced family does. We all make what we think is the best decision for our children and our families.

OP, many more men would leave if they didn't think that they would lose their children.

I don't think either parent should get automatic residency.

In an ideal world when the couple seperates they amicably are able to come to some kind of arrangement as to who has them when and where. Of course that isn't always going to happen and I feel where the parents cannot come to a sensible arrangement then the courts must get involved.

I don't think a one week here and one week there system is great. For one a week is far too long to be apart from your children whether you are a mum or dad and for two its just too confusing and unsettling for the kids to move around so much.

Personally I think a 50/50 split down the middle is best for all involved where possible. Of course this is, once again, in an ideal world. Mum takes DC monday morning-thursday morning, dad takes them thursday afternoon/evening-sunday night/monday morning.

I wouldn't want to live in a world where I felt trapped in an unhappy relationship because my DC would be basically taken from me if I split and I genuinely feel for men in that situation, it shouldn't be that way. Women can be just as crap at parenting as men can be. The key is if you can't be amicable and become happy with the amount you see your DC then court.

Do I think more dads would stick around? Probably but you'd have an awful lot more unhappy couples and children as a result. Lets not forget also that there are two sides to every story and whilst there are men who run off sometimes the woman could be twisting the story and she left him no choice or she forced him out. Also for women who do cut the dad out, whilst some are undoubtedly psychotic i'm sure many have very good reasons and the dad twists it to paint himself as a victim.

Its very complex and sad. I always feel sad when families split.

I only know of a couple of Fathers who aren't that interested in their children. It is really sad when this happens but I don't think it's typical. It must be very difficult for all concerned. Most Dads don't just walk away from their children. I don't think it's helpful to pain this negative picture of fathers. Although some are dreadful.

'paint'

But it's not about who thinks they know what about other people. There shouldn't be the structural inequality at all.

I'm repeating myself. Off to bed. Night all.

I can't think of any men or women who would rather have a career than the DCs. It is a rare mother who says 'you have the DCs, I can only see them at weekends because of my career'- I think that a lot of men would like it if they did.