To think this is wrong?

[Spottyblancmange]

My DN and one of her Uni friends are home for the weekend, and last night the topic of sex came up. My DN's friend recounted an experience to us, and to me it sounds like rape. DN and her friend disagreed, and I know I have a slightly distorted perspective on these things because of my own experiences so I wanted to ask for other opinions. Fully willing to accept IABU on this one, I know I have my own issues.

Basically, Friend said that she'd been kissing and fumbling with a guy, and he starts to position himself for sex, at which point she told him she didn't want to do that, she didn't think they should. He entered her anyway. She then told him to stop, and he ignored her, telling her she didn't really want him to stop, and as she described it, he seemed to get a bit angry so she then said yes because she was worried how he'd react if she carried on pushing her no.

She and DN appear to think that because she was already undressed and she did consent (although I'm dubious that consenting because she was worried how he'd react is even consent) after her intial hesitation that it's okay. But I really don't think it is. AIBU to think that?

She was raped. How she chooses to deal with that is a matter for her.

I don't think you are being unreasonable to think it, but maybe to push her in to thinking it.

It clearly was (to me anyway) but if she doesn't feel it is, then is isn't.

I didn't push it with her, I hope, I said it as my initial reaction and when she and DN disagreed, I left it. I just did wonder whether it was my own experiences colouring it, and wanted an outside perspective. Unless she brings it up, I'm not intending to mention it again.

It was wrong. Very wrong. No dressing it up, he forced himself on her.

Like carabos said how she chooses to deal with this is up to her.

She's spoken to you and has in her own mind justified what he's done. I don't think you can really do or say any more.

I have to ask, did he wear a condom? has she got her self checked out? MAP in need?

God yes ophelia a very important point.

Rape definitely. You should be allowed to say no at any point, even if they are inside you when you changed your mind! Its once you say no and they continue, it is rape.

I hope shes ok.

You can't push the Uni friend to accept it because she's obviously closed her mind (for self-protection?), but a chat to your DN another time to talk it through so that hopefully she realises that it was rape and she won't accept that kind of treatment herself.

Until MN, I probably wouldn't have thought it was wrong either - it's only from becoming aware via this website that I now realise.

I had a very similar experience to how you describe at uni myself, although fortunately for me a good friend (male) came into the room & grabbed the guy off me before it got to actual rape, but that's where it was heading with me giving 'consent' as I'd said no a lot & his intentions were clear so I thought it easier & safer to get it over with (was very drunk at the time) than keep trying to push him off.

Long story, but the point is I think you're correct, but totally understand the friend thinking how she does. I'd echo the poster who said to speak to your niece separately about it to ensure she realises its unacceptable.

Yes, it is rape. I think it's sad that your DN and her friend feel able to justify it, but it doesn't surprise me- I've seen a lot of similar comments here on MN.

I think it's because rape is such a horrendous thing to face up to psychologically. The person it happened to must find it easier in some ways to think 'oh it was just an unpleasant sexual experience with a partner who got carried away'.

I also think it works in a similar way to people like your DN who wasn't there- she might be thinking that her friend did consent and could have stopped it if she'd 'really' wanted to. Because the alternative is too uncomfortable to consider.

I second the advice above about talking to your DN again sometime about the whole issue of consent. It sounds like her expectations of men and relationships are set way too low.

It sounds like DN and her friend both need support in understanding their own right to say NO, at any time, under any circumstances. You don't need to push the point that friend was raped, but they really should know that peer pressure or "what will he think of me" is not a reason to let it happen, if they don't want it to. And that if they ever feel it is wrong, and they say no, they have every right to speak out about it if forced.