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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to be quiet when others are racist

72 replies

inthisdayandage · 01/12/2012 00:40

A few weeks ago i had a get together with friends where some pretty racist things were said. I did not say anything as I did not want to rock the boat so to speak but i certainly did not agree. Does silence make me as bad as the racists? I am still feeling unhappy about it now- should I speak up or just let it go?

OP posts:
fairylightsandtinsel · 01/12/2012 07:42

It is hard but even if you can just raise an eyebrow you are expressing your disapproval - if they then want to take it further you can say, not sure I agree but ...change the subject. My mum does it occasionally when she describes the state of the street in the East End where she grew up and always feels it necessary to say that there isn't a white face to be seen. I always pick her up on it. I also got into a FB row with my cousin who put an unbelieveably homophobic rant on there. Everyone else just asked stupid qs about the programme he'd seen but I told him it was nasty and offensive and he accused me of jumping on a PC bandwagon when HE'D been on 2 diversity awareness courses at work so his was an informed opinion!!! Didn't want to create another family rift so didn't pursue it further but I felt I had to say something as his nephew is gay and on FB a lot. Depends on the context of course but i think you do need to try and challenge it where you feel able.

LatteLady · 01/12/2012 07:52

I know it is hard but you should try and say I don't agree, and I don't want you saying it... it reminded me of the Pastor Niemoller quote,

"First they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for the Communists and I did not speak out because I was not a Communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for me and there was no one left to speak out for me."

But you are a Mumsnetter and you can rest assured that we will speak out for you.

Proudnscaryvirginmary · 01/12/2012 08:02

Great thread. Been in this position many times, unfortunately.

I have began to speak out a lot more now I'm decrepid old.

Depends on the comment and the person saying it though.

At a dinner party about 18 months ago, I tackled a racist 'friend' (friend's dh) and ended up telling him 'You know what, can you take your racist views somewhere else as I don't want to hear them'. My h - who HATES confrontation and likes conversation to be kept to banal banter at social situations - was really proud of me and said 'That told YOU mate' and gave me a kiss!!!

Softlysoftly · 01/12/2012 08:28

I like that Latte reckon we should get the MN version on a t-shirt!

NameGotLostInCyberspace · 01/12/2012 09:50

Lattelady I was going to post this but was unsure of the person's name.

OP, I understand your caution "not to rock the boat" but I would say a very mild "that was abit out of order" type comment just to let them not its unacceptable. If that is not even possible, then why are you socialising with these people?

bondigidum · 01/12/2012 10:17

It is hard to challenge it, I totally understand. Every time my mum comes around she says something different that's racist.. I hate it, I hate her for it. Sometimes I have to laugh at her sheer ignorance and idiocity. Because that is all racists are- idiots. Gullible idiots.

I smile because I am glad that even though she brought me up with her BNP views I still rose above it and am better than that. I sometimes challenge her, particularly in changing the words she uses for certain races. Also I will say stuff like 'oh so you know all of the people are like that then? You have met them all and know that for certain?' Her baffled face is amusing.

What you have to realise is even on challenging them they won't have an intelligent come back because, well, they aren't intelligent to feel that way in the first place. So they will probably be left stumped anyway.

bondigidum · 01/12/2012 10:17

*also they don't sound like friends you couldn't lose anyway.

thebody · 01/12/2012 10:27

Both my parents and since departed parents in law were always talking about how the 'pakkis' got this and that and they didn't.

They didn't mind 'the gays' but didn't like them always talking about it on tele as they should just 'do it quietly'

All 4 of them were kind and thoughtful, spent hours chatting with their black and Asian neighbours and local shop owners and were horrified when the young Asian lad over the road was chased and beaten up by 3 white lads.

They never ever got the connection.

Jins · 01/12/2012 10:35

I challenge it nowadays since I'm older and care less about what people think about me. Friendships with casual racists doesn't work for me in any case

When I was younger I stayed quiet and seethed inside. Either way the friendship wasn't going to last

Mrsjay · 01/12/2012 10:39

I think i I would have said something what did they say or the gist of it? some people have weird views on things dont they

Mrsjay · 01/12/2012 10:40

I grew up with a racist bigotted step father and something i would challenge others I would just leave it and ignore him , he isnt an awful man on the whole just his views back then were just awful

HerriotsofFire · 01/12/2012 10:51

Doesn't make you as bad, but that's a minor issue. Whose job do you think it is to challenge racism?

Dawndonna · 01/12/2012 10:59

Racism is man's gravest threat to man - the maximum of hate for the minimum of reason.

Having been beaten up by racists in the past (thirty odd years ago), please, if the situation is safe, challenge these morons.
Thank you.

DIYapprentice · 01/12/2012 11:20

If you feel unable to challenge them directly a simple 'do you have any idea just how awful you sound when you talk like that?!' works well. It pulls them up on what they said, shows that you don't agree with it, but isn't strongly confrontational.

GhostShip · 01/12/2012 11:22

Depends what was said, it might not have been racist.

Also its weird how this would really bother someone in your position, but if sexist or homophobic remarks or anything else hurtful wouldn't. Discrimination is discrimination, but racism seems to be the one people are so set against.

AmberLeaf · 01/12/2012 11:29

What would you do if you were in a similar scenario again OP?

If you would do the same, then yes IMO you're as bad.

If you would challenge it, then no you're not as bad.

This occasion seemed to throw you, but you have come away thinking about it which is good.

Lastly....find better friends!

BoulevardOfBrokenSleep · 01/12/2012 11:32

That's a fairly random comment, GhostShip Confused

OP - Should I have challenged these people saying 'pretty racist things'?

Ghostship - Well, maybe they weren't being racist, and obviously if they were being homophobic it wouldn't have bothered you.

I mean, I know it's only words on a screen and all, but you gotta work with the information in the OP...?

AntoinetteCosway · 01/12/2012 11:36

I think the fact you feel so bad about it suggests you know you should speak up next time. My mother is flagrantly homophobic and I pick her up on it every time she says something bigoted. It's different in that she's my mother, and I guess it's easier to criticise family than friends, but I know in myself that I don't want her thinking I agree with her, and I'd be the same with friends.

The real question, I think, is do you actually want to be friends with racists?

GrrrArghZzzzYaayforall8nights · 01/12/2012 11:44

OP, in the heat of the moment, it's easy to shut down. I'm painfully introverted and pulling people up on their attitudes is very against my grain. Hindsight flogging doesn't help, and won't help anyone else, but use the experience to see what you would do in the future - what would you say, what you would do, who you could be with you if you had to see them again who would give you support, practise, find articles to back up your point.

If you have them on any social sites like Facebook, find things to post now {I could send you a heap of links and blogs and books, even now that I'm much better at pulling people up, I still get tongue tied and tend to read a lot after an argument to clarify my thoughts better, posting them and spreading the knowledge helps me to feel better when I haven't been able to get across what I wanted in the moment}.

It is hard, but you get better at it.

Valdeeves · 01/12/2012 11:47

I can't answer this question to know what is bring said. I've been in your situation and haven't challenged it as I have genuinely been speechless. I have challenged at other times.
What did they say?

quoteunquote · 01/12/2012 12:12

ask yourself if you would stand up and say something if there was a person there that the racist comments were aimed at,

The thing is when these "friends" are out and about spreading their poisonous thoughts, they feel justified as when they tested the ideas out on friends ,no one objected.

I don't care who it is elderly relative, client,,stranger or friend, you will get re educated if you share poisonous thought anywhere near me. Because I would quite like in my life time to live in a world where people don't hate each other just because they have differences, I want my children to live in peace.

I can't expect that to happen unless I do my part.

Sallyingforth · 01/12/2012 12:53

I try to express disappointment when someone makes racist comments, and I have two ex-friends who no longer invite me since I objected to their speech.

But I have to admit that someone recently told a racist joke that I actually found funny and I couldn't help but laugh even though I knew it was wrong. I felt quite ashamed afterwards. What does that say about me?

kim147 · 01/12/2012 13:00

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BarbaraBar · 01/12/2012 13:03

I had a falling out with a friend of mine and her H after a dinner party at which he spouted his racist views. I had no idea he was such a tosser. I told him his views were offensive, ignorant and totally inappropriate. She sat there quietly while he ranted on in his bigoted way. I was shocked and appalled at him for his views and also at her for not saying anything. DH and I agreed that we could no longer socialise with this couple because I think if you hang out with racists then, imho, you condone what they say.

YouCanBe · 01/12/2012 13:16

I may or may not say anything, spending on the situation, but I wouldn't see them again.

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