to refuse to work for free

[HardWorkerNotAFool]

For every minute I work outside of 9.30am to 6.00pm, I consider myself working for free. For every lunch break I spend huddled in front of my pc whilst my stomach growls painfully or heaves from the nastiness that is a hurried down store-bought sandwich, I am working for free. And you know what? I fucking resent it!

Discuss.

I work for free. It's called childcare for two under-threes.

For me it is a blend of 4 factors:

• quid pro quo. I work longer hours than my contract many weeks but my company treats me like a grown up and assumes if i arrive late or leave early i have a good reason and will make up time / have plenty of favours owed by them in the time bank (imaginary btw)

• pay does come into it. I think contracts should only carry the clause about 'working the hours it takes to do the job' if pay reflects this is worthwhile. I don't know the level though. Maybe twice the average salary, so £48k or thereabouts?

• what you get out of it. There will be some benefit however hidden. Chance of promotion, better performance review, crediting your positive attitude. This might lead to better bonus or above average pay rise. Worst case it could be that times are tough, jobs are at risk and you want to be low on the list if redundancy is threatened.

• other people. My DP works silly hours out of obligation to his team. He takes stuff on so as not to overload them and feels a huge obligation to deliver what he has committed to. He isn't the least bit ambitious but this attitude has earned him 4 promotions in 6 years!

If none of the above are in place then unless you really love your boss, which it doesn't sound like, why bother?

50k seems a lot to me. New teachers earn about 20-22k and they work at least 15 hours unpaid overtime per week, usually more due to the pressures of being an NQT.

When I worked in office jobs it seemed to me that a lot of overtime was due to people faffing around and wasting time during the day. I never did one ounce of overtime as a researcher, in fact I often did less than my contracted hours, as I was in charge of my own time. I still got a hell of a lot more done than my supervisor, who spent long evenings in the office. In fact I had outstanding reviews while she ended up being fired for incompetence. Putting in long hours is essential in some jobs - I just couldn't avoid it as a teacher - but in others doing things like cutting out the bullshit in meetings (GOD how I hate meetings!!) and minimising gassing at desks, does a lot to reduce unnecessary overtime.

Turnip, I agree about teachers. They work very long hours, but then they do have long holidays as well. I know they have work to do over the holidays, and having the school holidays means you can't take time off if you need to during term time, but every teacher I know appreciates the time they get off.

I resent the culture where if you are a relatively high earner you are expected to do long hours. It smacks of dishonesty somehow - either you are genuinely paid more for specialist expertise, or you are just being paid to work like a mule! Would like to have a challenging and well rewarded job but I do want to have a life too! I now work out what my hourly wage is after tax so I know what I'm working for. And remind myself if feeling pressured that every extra hour I work is pushing down my hourly wage

I once spoke to someone from one of the big consulting firms who explained their graduate recruitment profile as 'insecure over-achievers'. This was people who had always slogged their guts out at school and uni in order to get recognition.

For the firm this was ideal - they pay the employee a set salary and ok bonus but they charge the consultancy skills on an hourly basis (day rate assuming 8 hour day). Consultant regularly works and carges client for a 60 hour week. The company needs fewer people to deliver the volume of work. The difference is a profitable little earner.

There's a big difference though between an investment banker working long hours and unpaid overtime but being paid a very generous salary and bonus and a nurse working long hours and unpaid overtime but being paid a relatively low salary and no bonus...

I am gob smacked at the amount of unpaid hours people do. I work and am paid for a 39 hour week. I do work, when needed longer hours or at weekends but I can then take the hours off (toil) at another date agreed between my self and my manager. I work in London and am paid well above minimum wage and am in very much a careerer over a job.

I do realise how luck I am.

Time is more important to me than money. I live modestly specifically because I want to work part time. I work over my contracted hours most weeks, but I expect to get that time back, rather than to be paid for it. :)

YABU.

I do countless hours unpaid, sometimes whole days (once did two weeks), don't get paid travel and still love my job. It is a vocation. I struggle financially but consider myself lucky to be in a job in this climate.

Oh, and I am self-employed, so no maternity, sick or holiday leave.

Not sure the job would suit you OP. :-/

in work, working, by 7:30 this morning (often in at 6:30) and left a 9pm. yesterday in at 7, left at 6:45 because i didn't have a phone with me and didn't want to be making my way home any later without one. worked past 8 three nights last week, and did six hours on saturday. no overtime.
teacher.

the holidays are a myth. when do you think the rest of the work gets done?

The holidays aren't entirely a myth are they? I know there are lesson plans, marking etc. but I have to take home lever arch files of stuff to prepare for the following day. Which runs 07:30-17:30ish. I don't have any paid holidays. Had a week off in May and would kill small kittens for another one but can't afford it. Now running away from lots of teachers...

When I was younger I worked for a period (couple of months) doing up to 80 hours a week in the office and at home and my salary was £28k and I was fairly junior. It was a professional role though and I did it to ensure the job was done properly and delivered on time. While I didn't get paid for those extra hours I was with that company for 10 years and my hard work was noted and I was promoted very quickly.

I don't think it's right to be expected to work extra hours for free but it's very common and if you have an employer that's flexible when you need the time it's not so bad.

I gave up a well paid job because I was required to work 60-70hrs a week, plus several weekends a month, and often had to cancel holidays at the last minute (and no, I couldn't claim on the company for the money wasted on fares and accommodation I couldn't use). The overtime was expected, and unpaid. I didn't mind it when I was single, in fact I enjoyed the pressure, buzz and camaraderie of the team, but once I married it took a toll on my personal life. It is hard to sustain any type of relationship when you are rarely at home at the same time and unable to plan holidays or nights out.

I miss my career, but it was the right choice.