To be annoyed at how some people slag off the NHS?

[snowtunesgirl]

No it's not perfect but I'm still grateful that we have a National Health Service where if you need an ambulance, they don't first check you for Health insurance.

A friend of mine wasn't feeling well and had a bad experience with his local GP where he's not registered and for some reason they wouldn't let him temporarily register as an emergency. Therefore, he had to go the Walk-In Centre which was about an hour away.

It turns out that he has an ear infection and tonsillitis so felt pretty rotten but he's making out that he was on death's door and is banging on about how the NHS is shit because the first doctor wouldn't see him. He's also saying that lots of people die on the NHS every day due to neglect. I'm not saying that this doesn't happen but surely it's more of a rarity than the norm?

I've had some shitty experiences with the NHS but on the whole a REALLY positive one. I think it's a shame that all the bad bits of the NHS gets reported in the papers and somehow all the good stories never do.

[CaseyShraeger]

Re US insurance, a friend of mine was just (within the last month) made redundant from her job at 8.5 months pregnant. As a result her insurance benefits were going tp cease before her EDD, and as a result of that she had to be induced early so that the birth and hospital stay would be within the period for which she had insurance coverage.

[Solopower1]

Casey!

[RedToothbrush]

Am I proud of the NHS?

Yes and No.

I am proud of the fact its better than the US system, but I'm not proud of the inexcusable fuckups and excuses being made about how the NHS can not afford things especially when a problem has nothing to do with money.

Too many problems are down to poor management/ignorance rather than pure finance and the money argument is actually a perfect excuse to allow it to continue.

And when we do talk about money, budgets are far too focused on short term economics and not long term ones. People should hang for PFI and I've dealt with NHS suppliers and could give you horror stories about wastage and corruption which I've not experienced when dealing with any other company or organisation.

And I'm not proud of the fact that too many people let the NHS off the hook, because 'its free' (its not) instead of complaining when they should do. I do believe a great many problems in the NHS are caused because of people NOT complaining and holding people to account when things go wrong. We are settling for a service that is mediocre in comparison to other comparable Western countries as result and not striving for excellence because the NHS is somehow often 'untouchable' because of our national pride about it.

Our pride in the NHS is actually very damaging at times. I'm not sure encouraging people to be proud about it is all together productive if they ignore its problems and get upset when people are critical of it as a result which DOES happen. I've no doubt there will be examples of that blinkered attitude on this thread.

[crashdoll]

For those who think that if we paid for it, the NHS would be better, well you're wrong. Ask people who live in countries where they pay.

I've had lots of medical treatment - both privately and on the NHS. I've had fantastic experiences in both areas but also some appalling care too. My worst medical experience was in a private hospital post op. It left me with a real fear of being in hospital again.

[CaptainVonTrapp]

We do pay for it Crashdoll

[baublesandbaileys]

Red Toothbrush, yes not everyone complains, but I've never heard of anyone not complaining "because it's free" - if that happens at all I imagine it's a v small percentage

most people, myself included, don't complain about shite medical care because they are at the time too traumatised to go into to it.. then it feels to late once they feel more stable IYKWIM

and I've had good and bad in the NHS, in private treatment in the UK, and in non free health systems aborad - in every one there is something that I should have complained about but didn't, the NHS examples have nothing to do with me not wanting to complain because its free, it had more to do with being traumatised and post natal and not strong enough to at the time (and the fact that when I did later the drug charts etc had been falsely signed so it came down to my word against there's anyway and went nowhere!)

[baublesandbaileys]

my experience of a private op in the UK was great at the consultations, the service when I came in, and the op itself, but the post op stuff was downright dangerous. As every single item used was then billed with a profit, they tend to over perscribe and gave me WAY too many drugs!

[FreudianLisp]

YANBU, OP. I'm a clinician working in the NHS. I - and everyone I know - do our very best. We're not perfect, but nobody is. But we try incredibly hard to give our patients the best possible care.

[Oblomov]

I don't bitch. I do complain. My Consultant asked to see my dh and me, so she could apologise.

[Backinthebox]

That NHS is free and available to all in this country is marvellous. I was not too happy with them though when I ended up with a serious iatrogenic infection due to the arrogance of a doctor. Not over the moon either when a surgeon managed to cut through things she shouldn't have done and in the aftermath I was cable-tied by my catheter tube to the bed because I was bothering the nurses by getting out of my bed to go and see my baby after 12 hours of polite requests to be taken to see her. Also not to thrilled when one relative was sent home with a broken leg that hadn't been set despite her being in hospital for 10 days, and another relative had to beg his GP for tests only to discover he had been showing classic cancer symptoms for a year that his GP had ignored.

I am glad they are there to save lives when it's needed but I do think there is need for some improvement. Not everyone has 100% warm glowy feelings after a run in with the NHS.

[marriedinwhite]

Freudianlisp I can sympathise to a degree but does doing their best include recording the correct information in notes (I can't see an excuse for nurses/midwives who are supposed to be degree/masters qualified), speaking to people with basic courtesy, ensuring that basic admin mistakes are not made. The difficulty I have on the sympathy front is that so often when dealing with the NHS I do not see people being busy; I see them gossiping, yacking and doing everything except helping the patients.

A case in point was my recent breast screening appointment for 21st October. It was postmarked 4th October 2012, I had to phone and cancel it because I had had it done privately, ie, I was sent a unilateral appointment. I phoned; I spoke, once speaking I realised the letter said 2011. The lady said "ooh I don't know how that happened but there's a note you didn't attend". FFS!! Likewise my surgery has offered me a healthcheck for the over 50s. They have 30 mins to weigh and measure me with a nurse. They have subcontracted their phlebotomy service to the other service where they expect me to wait in a queue for an hour at least. I am more than capable of weighing an measuring myself; I cannot give myself a blood test for a medical condition I don't have. PRIORITIES, COMMONSENSES, RESPECTING THE TIME OF THE GENERAL PUBLIC, BEHAVING IN A RESPECTFUL WAY TOWARDS OTHERS, BEING BASICALLY EFFICIENT. It isn't on; it really really isn't - it is a shambles and if these people expected to be paid their acts would be sharpened up smartly.

[crashdoll]

CaptainVonTrapp I meant if it was privatised. I'm tired. excuses

[marriedinwhite]

should have said medical condition I don't wish or choose to have.

[threesocksmorgan]

I think the NHS is great.
but I hate that fact nothing is done when doctors/midwives cock up and brain damage your baby.

[KarlosKKrinkelbeim]

I'm a clinician working in the NHS. I - and everyone I know - do our very best. We're not perfect, but nobody is. But we try incredibly hard to give our patients the best possible care. "
This is the sort of platitude whih is incredibly easy to spout but is certainly not borne out by my experience, in a number of areas of the country (I have moved about a lot over the last few years). The NHS is as full of timeservers and freeloaders as any other large entity, with one important difference; nothing seems to be done about them.

[baublesandbaileys]

I must admit that I do hate that noone ever seems to get fired in the NHS, at worst they get relocated (to make another team miserable and drag them down)

[Bouncey]

Yes. Having bitched about late antenatal appointments etc, I had a slightly complicated later pregnancy (waters broke at 34 weeks, dd born 35 weeks, post partum haemorrhage, dd in SCBU for a bit). All this meant a fair bit of hospital time, including a trip to A&E in an ambulance. I was bowled over by the professionalism, dedication and sheer hard work of the doctors, nurses, paramedics, midwives I met.

That said, I can entirely see how tragic mistakes could happen because the medical professionals I met were all working flat out and massively overstretched; It's a miracle they coped with their enormous workload.

[AngryGnome]

I am surprised by how many people are dismissive if the way in which poor or negligent care provided by the NHS can actually change people's lives forever.

By saying "The NHS is a marvellous institution, yes there are bound to be some problems, but these are a rarity" the experiences and lives of these "rare" people who have been seriously affected are hugely undermined.

I was left with permanent spinal damage following childbirth, and my DS with permanent facial scarring. I was in hospital for a long while after the birth, during which DS essential pain and anti-infection meds were forgotten, I was accused of being lazy (lower body paralysis would be a more accurate description). There are lots of other issues I have had threads about before.

I am not disputing that there are pockets of good practice and pockets of bad practice, but to keep championing the NHS as the best model of healthcare is, IMHO, naive and actually not helpful. Yes, I agree that the NHS model is better than the US model - but to pretend that it is either NHS postcode lottery or US style bankruptcy if you are not insured is too simplistic. There has to be a third way, and I have read other posters saying that many European countries, for example, have a different system.

[baublesandbaileys]

because AngryGnome I've seen the fuck ups being more frequent in the other european non free health care system I've lived in, the customer service was also worse

Those things are not happening BECAUSE the NHS is free, they are happening because of other factors WHICH NEED TO BE FIXED but which occur, often more frequently, in countries where you are charged per treatment/admission, so it cannot be because they NHS is "free"(ish)

[baublesandbaileys]

its more to do with a cultural imbalance of power when a patient is sat on front of a HCP, white coat syndrome I think it's called!

white coat syndrome is not a result of there being an NHS, it happens in lots of countries that don't have a NHS

[baublesandbaileys]

and it happens in private health care in the UK too!

[AngryGnome]

so some fuck ups are fine then?

I am probably too close to this to be able to discuss it objectively at the moment, but i have seen and received consistently poor care from the NHS, and so I do not think that it should be championed as it is. It needs reform.

[AngryGnome]

That is interesting baubles about the cultural imbalance of power in medical situations. I know a lot of women who certainly felt very intimidated and didnt speak up as strongly as they felt they should have done at certain times.

White coat syndrome is very real, but i don't think it should be used to excuse clinical errors.

[baublesandbaileys]

no of course not, but I don't believe that the route cause is that the NHS is a NHS and not a billed service!

[baublesandbaileys]

"White coat syndrome is very real, but i don't think it should be used to excuse clinical errors"

no not "excuse" at all, more to explain/explore. I felt much more the silly little woman who can't possibly know more about her own body than the clever doctor man in a non NHS system though which is why I think it's more down to culture than payment system

I also lost my voice a bit in both NHS care and private UK care, when I'm usually stroppy assertive and well able to speak up for myself in other situations. My voice just seems meeker and less important sometimes when in the patient-HCP dynamic and it doesn't matter if its NHS or not!