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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Who really gets £500+ weekly state benefits?

712 replies

vivizone · 21/11/2012 21:04

I find this shit so hard to believe. Reading the media, you would think this was a common figure on life on benefits.

Yesterday and today's Metro newspaper - people writing in saying they agree with the cap of £500 and why should people be sat on their arse and be rewarded by £500 per week. . Why should they earn £200 per week working and people are getting £500 a week doing nothing.

Seriously, who gets this £500 per week that is being peddled out of the media? I spent 7 months out of work after redundancy and I could not live on the pittance I received for me and my children. I do not know how people do it. I really don't. I had a decent redundancy package and that was the only way I could make it.

How many people do you know (forget the newspaper stories) that are RECEIVING £500 or more every week? I thought so.

How come if life is/was that cushy on benefits, not enough people are/were packing in their jobs to join a life of riley?

We have been had. Life on benefits is HARD and DEMORALISING. I have tried it and I can tell you you get PEANUTS.

The reason why stories run on people living in million dollar homes/getting thousands a week in benefits is because it is RARE. It is SO rare, that it gets reported on.

OP posts:
IAmSoFuckingRock · 23/11/2012 22:28

dont forget the person recieving the childcare award will also be paying tax!

so what are you saying vivienne. parents can only work in jobs that pay well over the cost of childcare? how do you do this? raise wages? lower childcare costs? or just not employ parents in jobs paying less than £20,000?

IAmSoFuckingRock · 23/11/2012 22:29

and what do we do with all these parent who are suddenly unemployable? the dole queues are long enough!

IneedAsockamnesty · 23/11/2012 22:30

Ronda tax credits have already changed to the 24 h rule.

Viviennemary · 23/11/2012 22:39

Will this £26,000 a year benefit rule include the cost of childcare. Will there be a cap on how much somebody can get. I haven't actually thought about that one. I think the squeezed middle are the ones I feel quite sorry for. On a treadmill never getting anywhere.

mumstonic · 23/11/2012 22:43

I'm curious to know more about UC, after my chat today with DSIS and of course this thread. Also DP's redundancy has prompted me to re-evaluate things.

I've just found this site (not sure how official or accurate it is) and UC appears to make very little difference to someone in a similar situation to my DSIS.

policyinpractice.co.uk/universal-credit/universal-credit-calculator/universal-credit-claim/

For someone working 24 hours p/w earning £662 they would still qualify for top ups resulting in a take home pay of £2265 + Council tax benefit which is to be administered at a local level. Assuming this was £1000 per yr this would equate to an equivalent salary of £35,226.

How can someone in a part time role earn more than a full time police officer or nurse??

Also, Sock are you saying that even if a person works 24 hours pw, they would still be expected to go for other jobs with longer hours? If that?s the case it?s bloody ludicrous. Firstly who will work in PT jobs and what about the small companies that can only afford to employ 1 or 2 part time employees?..... bookkeepers, cleaners, bar staff, waitresses?

Surely if a person is already working they're classed as employed? I'd like to see evidence to support the idea that a pt worker would be made to change jobs for more hours and money.

IAmSoFuckingRock · 23/11/2012 22:46

"Firstly who will work in PT jobs and what about the small companies that can only afford to employ 1 or 2 part time employees?..... bookkeepers, cleaners, bar staff, waitresses?"

good point! i hadn't thought of that.

CrunchyFrog · 23/11/2012 22:47

Vivienne I pay more each week in childcare than I earn.

So that's nice.

Would I be better staying home, d'ya think?

I'll be paying childcare longer than most people, DC2 has ASD so won't be independent for longer than the average child (I don't pay CC for 9 year old DD except in school holidays, because she can be farmed out to various family members without much impact - a child with SN is a different matter.)

I used to (when married and earning £32,000) get no help with CC, and it crippled me. Now, as a single parent on just above min wage, I get help, and it enables my employer to pay piss poor wages, my childminder to make a living wage (she makes far more than I do) and my landlord and all the others in the area to charge way more rent than minimum wage workers earn.

I'm propping up capitalism with my poor earning skills, yay me! >

AmberLeaf · 23/11/2012 22:51

It is ridiculous, but im surprised people are surprised TBH!

This is made up by rich tories who won't be affected.

AudrinaAdare · 23/11/2012 22:56

Some good news r.e Universal Credit

If I fucked-up half that badly I'd lose my job. How I would love to see that man on workfare. Still, nice to see that it is all saving lots of money Hmm

rhondajean · 23/11/2012 22:58

God sock I can't keep up - what is it now? ( apparently neither can hmrc website)

IneedAsockamnesty · 23/11/2012 22:59

I'm a bit shite at doing links unless there amazon but its on the DWP website.and if you check the money and in the news boards links about it are all over them.

And seriously that's what I mean yes that's what's going to happen and they can make you change jobs repeatedly until you earn over a certain amount.

And don't count on ctb its now going to be up to the la if they offer any assistance to anybody.

As to the squeezed middle I understand things are hard at the mo but I will start banging on about the injustice against them when I stop coming into contact with decent law abiding people who routinely get there cards declined when attempting to buy bread and beans.

expatinscotland · 23/11/2012 23:01

'Will this £26,000 a year benefit rule include the cost of childcare. Will there be a cap on how much somebody can get. I haven't actually thought about that one.'

Yes if it's via tax credits.

Oh, we're talking about it loads here. This is a rural area with nearly all part-time and seasonal jobs and shift work where you have to run a car for most jobs at all. Many of us are about to get shafted.

Move? Wouldn't that be nice! So you leave the job you have to go into a city and compete with everyone else in the same boat? What about your mortgage, if you have one, or your rent?

Even the HA officer admitted the plans were ill-thought-out, short-sighted and will end up costing more in monies to house the homeless resulting from the caps. Let's not forget, 80% of those who claim HB or LHA are in work.

IneedAsockamnesty · 23/11/2012 23:02

A couple can only get wtc if they work 24 h or more unless ones a carer or pensioner but lone parents are still 16 h.

Think it came in last year or year before

rhondajean · 23/11/2012 23:06

Sock that's what I said. 17 hours for a lone parent and 24 for a couple.

www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/benefit-cap-factsheet.pdf

Wtc and presumably it's replacement ic element are not included in the cap. Childcare costs are paid under wtc. It's bad but please let's not all panic more than we must.

And 26k net is a 35k gross wage.

rhondajean · 23/11/2012 23:06

17??? 16!

rhondajean · 23/11/2012 23:08

Sock I get you - I meant if existing rules transfer to the new ic. Sorry.

OptimisticPessimist · 23/11/2012 23:11

Childcare won't (currently) be included in the cap because it's part of working tax credit and families in receipt of WTC are exempt from the cap. Whether that changes either with the introduction of UC or at some other point in the future remains to be seen. The childcare allowance was cut from 80% to 70% of costs as part of the Coalition's first budget so they're certainly not averse to cutting it.

When I worked full time my childcare costs were £450 pw - my weekly wages were £200. I could not have worked for as long as I did without the tax credit subsidy, and the cuts that were made to it (which amounted to £30 a week for me and anyone else using the full allowance for two or more children) had a part in me leaving my job. That subsidy meant I could work and pay income tax/NI but it also created a job for my nanny and meant that she paid tax/NI and I paid employer's NI. FWIW, in terms of immediate costs I cost the country less on benefits than I did working, because of my low wage.

rhondajean · 23/11/2012 23:16

Sorry phone is correcting uc to ic for some reason

garlicbaguette · 23/11/2012 23:35

YY, the new housing policy has ALREADY been made law. It's happening next April.

From then, the bedroom tax will be in full force. This affects people like me, who went for a low-quality 2 bed when HB was still allocated by cost (ie, I got a single person's allowance but found a 2-bed that it would cover). Now I'm not allowed to have a spare room and, from April, will be penalised. I will not get help with moving costs. It's unclear how the bedroom rule affects divorced parents and others with variable needs, for example two children one of whom has seizures and cannot safely share.

Council tax benefit will only be 80% even for those with full entitlement.

Councils' obligation to house the homeless is limited to finding a place for them - anywhere in the country. Say you and your family are evicted next April, maybe because your lease has run out or the landlord wants to refurbish (private tenancies are only 6 months by law, remember). You go to the council. They say they've found you a flat 400 miles away. You have to go. Never mind your jobs, DCs' school, family, doctors, everything: if you need the council's help with housing, you must go where they send you.

Bearing in mind that few low earners or non-earners can save the deposit (usually 2 months' rent) and the cost of moving to an unspecified location, this is clearly going to lead to utter chaos and widespread misery.

Housing associations are issuing financial warnings all over the country. The new law will make things even harder for them, presenting an imminent risk that floods of tenants - many vulnerable - will need rehousing, but no housing will be available at affordable levels.

The burden of housing benefits will fall on the councils people are moved into, not the ones getting rid of them. Since the cheapest housing is in the worst-funded areas, this may lead to councils going bankrupt or raising rents artificially to keep people out.

It is true that UC dictates part-time workers must attend jobsworth schemes, including workfare, interviews, box-ticking fiestas and whatever else the DWP tells them to when they tell them. This means that a part-time waitress may not be able to go into her paid work because she's been sent to work full-time, for nothing, by the jobcentre.

As part of this drive to force the nation into non-existent full-time jobs, everyone will have to put their CVs online, do their jobsearches, their diaries and their bookkeeping online ... and the records will be linked to all the other data held by the DWP. Going by past performance, this means that your medical records, bank details, address and your exact whereabouts will be available to any nine-year-old hacker and people who find USB sticks left on train seats.

I'm relieved to see Mad Ian's staff have left him and his UC system doesn't work! However, I wouldn't put it past him to push the thing through regardless - meaning that this insanity will be run by a garbled computer system, monies will be transferred randomly to the wrong people and 800 people will turn up for the same flat in Middlesbrough or workfare placement at Argos.

I can only think people aren't talking about it because they assume it's all scaremongering and no government could be this insane. Sadly, it is all true. The above - and more, and worse - has ALREADY been made law.

Oh, and don't think about challenging this through the courts as your legal rights have already been cut in half and they're just trying to wangle their secret proceedings bill through. That one means the government may choose whether to allow access to the details of any case. This includes controlling your access to the details of your own case.

Don't believe me? Check it out. I have. Then start telling everyone.

garlicbaguette · 23/11/2012 23:36

Vivienne, I need to catch up on cross-posts but am not really seeing why you say the childcare money could have paid someone's wages? It did pay someone's wages - the child carers!

rhondajean · 23/11/2012 23:39

Garlic. On Monday the dwp managers told us that you are only eligible for costs for a room for your children if you receive child benefit for them.

So mum and dad divorce. Dad has a room for his two daughters every second weekend. Mum claims cb. Dad loses job. He now has to find 14% of his total housing costs to keep a room for his children.

This was in the case study they gave us to consider do I am sure I have this correct.

mumstonic · 23/11/2012 23:43

I've searched and I've searched and I cannot find any evidence to suggest that someone working 24 hours per week would be forced to find an alternative job with more hours and better pay.

According to the DWP site, people are encouraged to work more hours, but I cant find anything to suggest its compulsory to still look for FT work. My understanding is, if someone worked more hours in any given month, their benefit would reduce accordingly, yet they would keep more of their earnings and be better off?

I could see this working as an incentive for people wanting to take overtime to earn a bit extra without fear of losing their entitlement providing the online system thats linked directly to HMRC actually works which it inevitably won't and cost millions to set up

What worries me is that HB will go directly to the claimant and not the landlord...recipe for disaster? how many people will not pay their rent and lose their home?

IneedAsockamnesty · 23/11/2012 23:49

Garlic the extra room changes will not apply to you( unless they change the rules) it only applies to those in social housing.

Not those in private rented.

IneedAsockamnesty · 24/11/2012 00:01

Mumstonic what do you think work conditionality requirements are?

And incentives?

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