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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Who really gets £500+ weekly state benefits?

712 replies

vivizone · 21/11/2012 21:04

I find this shit so hard to believe. Reading the media, you would think this was a common figure on life on benefits.

Yesterday and today's Metro newspaper - people writing in saying they agree with the cap of £500 and why should people be sat on their arse and be rewarded by £500 per week. . Why should they earn £200 per week working and people are getting £500 a week doing nothing.

Seriously, who gets this £500 per week that is being peddled out of the media? I spent 7 months out of work after redundancy and I could not live on the pittance I received for me and my children. I do not know how people do it. I really don't. I had a decent redundancy package and that was the only way I could make it.

How many people do you know (forget the newspaper stories) that are RECEIVING £500 or more every week? I thought so.

How come if life is/was that cushy on benefits, not enough people are/were packing in their jobs to join a life of riley?

We have been had. Life on benefits is HARD and DEMORALISING. I have tried it and I can tell you you get PEANUTS.

The reason why stories run on people living in million dollar homes/getting thousands a week in benefits is because it is RARE. It is SO rare, that it gets reported on.

OP posts:
IneedAsockamnesty · 22/11/2012 23:15

Janey

She does not qualify for wtc or childcare element as she only works 15 hours a week.

One of you is telling porkies.

janey68 · 22/11/2012 23:16

Oh and btw I don't have a total breakdown of all her living costs, surprisingly! But I believe her, she's a good friend of mine and I kind of believe what good friends tell me. I have no personal axe to grind with her at all. It's the system which is at fault. She should be able to earn a living wage as a classroom assistant . If she uses her skills fully and actually teaches, she should have significantly more in her purse to reflect the that job. But while she won't have any tangible difference in her lifestyle by working longer hours in a harder job, she's choosing to play the system to her advantage.
WHat an utterly bonkers system.

AudrinaAdare · 22/11/2012 23:18

I can't remember the exact figures but I'm a former teacher and I certainly considered it when I was a lone parent. As a teacher I would have also had to pay for DD's childcare before and after school and for parent evenings, concerts, courses on the weekend Hmm etc whereas the learning support assistant hours were during the school day.

I would have earned too much to get any help with that and it was a big expense, as was the fact that I didn't drive and would no longer have time to walk into town to shop around for bargains and would only be able to pick up essentials from the expensive corner shop.

Was also struggling with debt left by XH and on a lower salary my repayments would be more affordable.

janey68 · 22/11/2012 23:19

Sock- I Didnt say my friend works 15 hours.
You're muddling posts. I used the 15 hours as an example in the context of 'if someone works 30 hours in a job they should have twice as much money as someone who works 15. Totally different post. I was explaining about the differentials being important

janey68 · 22/11/2012 23:23

Audrina- that's exactly right- there are a lot of hidden costs too.
I have no doubt my friend would be teaching if it made a difference financially- she's a talented woman and trained as a teacher to do exactly that. I think it's awful for her that she wouldn't be any better off.

Shellywelly1973 · 22/11/2012 23:32

Part of the idea behind Universal Credit is the theory of making work pay. So there will be four categories claimants will be placed into.

Carers,for example will not be required to be actively looking for work. Considerations will be made for lone parents with pre schoolers. Then basically all other able people will be reguired to actively look for work.( this is a very brief description).

The idea being all those able, will be required/encouraged to look for the equivalent of a job paying minimum wage at 35 hours per week. This includes single parents with school age children.

The theory is good but child care/school holidays/care for sick children is difficult & expensive in the real world. This would end the days of working minimum hours as the current system encourages.

There are many flaws within the new system as it appears to presume there are enough full time jobs for to go round. It ignores the difficulties faced by parents to reorganise care&travel costs.

garlicbaguette · 22/11/2012 23:47

YY, Shelly, plus the 'penalties' incurred on the first few thousand earned are absurdly high. If this is supposed to release the benefits trap and facilitate working-where-possible, it's a cock-up.

That's even before we get to the part where it's all going to be dependent on the internet, which practically guarantees monster cock-ups on a weekly basis Hmm

AudrinaAdare · 22/11/2012 23:51

Christ you're right r.e childcare. Yet another massive flaw in IDS' plan. DH is self employed so we were not exactly fans to begin with.

Shellywelly1973 · 22/11/2012 23:54

I really wonder how its going to work in practice!

Payments monthly in arrears...

Online applications&communication.

The cost of reorganising & implementing thwarting new systems 2.9 billion...

Viviennemary · 22/11/2012 23:54

I think most people agree that £500 per week after tax is a very generous amount of money. I really don't see why a person in a not very well paid job should be subsidising other people to live in London or in another expensive part of the country. It just simply isn't fair. House prices are inflated because the system has made them so.

Shellywelly1973 · 22/11/2012 23:56

Self employed are really going to be effected.

Thanks Torys-for implementing Labours nightmare plans!!!

AudrinaAdare · 22/11/2012 23:59

I can't remember which organisation sent me this via email recently. It's very simplistic but also very clear for people who are unaware of the issues:

The Poverty Trap Game

garlicbaguette · 23/11/2012 00:02

Oh yes, isn't there some thing where benefit will be deducted from the self-employed as if they were earning at least a full-time minimum wage? And if you say you don't earn that much, the JobCentre will go through your books with you and sort you out [snort] ?

You might have thought that a long-term sick person, and/or one with childcare issues, would be best advised to try clambering off benefits by doing a bit of freelance work, or starting up a little ebay business or doing crafts.

Nope. Not allowed.

Shellywelly1973 · 23/11/2012 00:03

I totally appreciate where people are coming from with the cost£500 argument but universal credit is going to massively affect working families.

The media has concentrated on a certain small group of benefit claimants but universal credit is going to reduce, in the long run the majority of claimants income. So if you get WTC,CTC, CB,HB,ESA,JS it will have an impact on your income.

IAmSoFuckingRock · 23/11/2012 00:04

shelly can you explain why self employed people will really be affected? i'm about to become self employed and i really dont understand the implications.

Shellywelly1973 · 23/11/2012 00:12

Very basically you have to have an income equivalent to working 35 hours per week at minimum wage. Costs/expenses are not taken into account...Im not an expert on self employed. Its Carer s&DLA that i mainly deal with.

AudrinaAdare · 23/11/2012 00:12

The worst thing is that the government via job centres have been actively encouraging claimants to go self employed to massage the figures. And now everyone will be expected to earn NMW during a fucking recession or go on Workfare. Way to encourage productivity and mobility Mr Duncan Shit.

IAmSoFuckingRock · 23/11/2012 00:14

thanks shelly. i'll try and find out a bit more.

Shellywelly1973 · 23/11/2012 00:17

There won't be the need for the extent of job centres after UC is fully implemented. The job centre staff will be joining the system they implemented-ironic!

garlicbaguette · 23/11/2012 00:19

YY, I've only just realised I've fallen foul of the double-speak myself. Will get on to the JCP tomorrow Shock

Rock, this is a long extract but it's important. It hasn't received nearly enough press, probably because it's both complicated and ridiculous :-

Universal Credit, which will introduce a staggering amount of complexity into the system and will stifle the chances of both the self-employed and the entrepreneurial alike.

According to the recently published draft regulations: ?claimants who declare that they have income from self-employment, or who are self-employed with no income, will be invited to a ?Gateway? interview.?

This appears to be some form of Stalinist Dragon?s Den, whereby people will be forced to prove to the DWP that their business, or their trade is: ?done with the intention of increasing the income received to the level we could expect the claimant to make if working full time?

Claimants will be expected to provide reams of evidence at these interviews which will no doubt be carried out by people with so much entrepreneurial know-how that they?ve ended up working in the Jobcentre.

Should the claimant pass this government test, then they will be granted a year?s start up period, during which they will be largely left alone. After that they will be subject to the ?Minimum Income Floor?. This means that self-employed people will be expected to earn a certain amount a week, or lose eligibility for benefits or self-employed status. The Government are not telling us exactly what that Minimum Income Floor will be in the consultation documents, however it has previously been suggested that people will be expected to earn at least the minimum wage for any self-employed activity.

Under the new proposals self-employed people will be expected to work at least 18 hours a week. It is unclear whether those in self-employment working at this level will be expected to abandon self-employment to take up full time work, or workfare, should the DWP deem it appropriate. Those working part time are now to be forced to continually look for full time work, attend interviews at the drop of a hat and hand in their notice immediately should they be offered even a temporary full time job.

If these requirements are not inflicted on self employed workers, then for many people simply under reporting their hours will mean they are able to qualify for the full Universal Credit award. If this all sounds confusing that?s because it is. Once again a key piece of legislation, set to go before Parliament in Autumn, has not been thought through or adequately explained.

It is likely that the Minimum Income Floor will mean that self-employed people are expected to earn the equivalent of the minimum wage for 35 hours a week or face a cut in benefits. As Housing Benefits are now to be lumped in with Universal Credit, this may mean homelessness for some.

Another aspect of the new regime will punish people who invest in tools, stock or other business expenses in order to increase earnings. Self employed people will now be required to report all income and business expenditure on a monthly basis as opposed to annually as under the present system. Expenses will not be carried over to the next month. This will mean if someone spends a couple of grand on stock this will only be reflected in their earnings for that month. The new system will make it impossible for self-employed people to invest on any significant level to improve their earnings.

It will not just be businesses that have large outlays, such as small shops or tradespeople, that will be affected by the monthly reporting. A freelance journalist who spends a month writing a piece in anticipation of it being sold will be penalised for not earning minimum wage during that period. Self employed people will be punished for injecting both time and cash into their business. The harder you work, the less you get.

And these are the lucky ones who have passed their DWP Dragon?s Den.

People who fail to impress the Government with their self-employment plans will still be permitted to earn money from self-employment, and will face the same monthly requirement to report any earnings. They will also however be given a Claimant Commitment, meaning they will not be treated as self-employed. This will mean that there will be a requirement to attend Mandatory Work Activity or attend pointless courses and workshops with Welfare to Work companies like fraud ridden A4e any time the DWP sees fit.

This will destroy people?s ability to take on small amounts of work on a casual basis. Should someone be offered a few days work on a self-employed basis they will not be in a position to guarantee they can turn up. They could be sent to work in a charity shop with no pay that week instead. Far from the stated aim of making all work pay, short periods of self-employed work will be a commitment that claimants can no longer make under the new regime. The DWP will decide how you spend your time and if you fail to comply you could face sanctions for up to three years.

johnnyvoid.wordpress.com/2012/06/23/universal-credit-self-employment-and-the-minimum-wage/

Shellywelly1973 · 23/11/2012 00:22

I work with families in really difficult circumstances. The information we are receiving about UC is patchy & unclear. I have spent months searching info on line-bloody mad! More dereactives are due to be announced shortly. Sorry i couldn't be more helpful...

Shellywelly1973 · 23/11/2012 00:32

Is it just me but how is this actually going to help people? The government should be encouraging self employment&small businesses.

Training, education & progression seems to be irrelevant-just as long as your earning that magical minimum wage at 35 hours per week.

IAmSoFuckingRock · 23/11/2012 00:36
Shock
Viviennemary · 23/11/2012 00:37

I feel that people are not realising that many many people are struggling to make ends meet on a lot less than £500 a week. And yet all we read about is those cruel benefit cuts. And many many people are paying tax to subsidise these other folk getting a lot more money than them. Sorry but I think this cap is very long overdue.

Shellywelly1973 · 23/11/2012 00:42

I agree with the cap but the point is nearly all people who recieve any sort of in work benefit will also have their benefit reduced,in the long run.

Hard working families are struggling now,its very difficult to comprehend how families will manage with cuts to income whilst living costs continue to rise.

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