Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

A Jew complains on behalf of Christians

101 replies

Abitwobblynow · 20/11/2012 19:10

Apparently the White House referred to Christmas Trees as ?Holiday Trees? for the first time this year which prompted CBS presenter, Ben Stein, to present this piece. I think it applies just as much to many countries as it does to America . . .

The following was written by Ben Stein and recited by him on CBS Sunday Morning Commentary.

My confession:

I am a Jew, and every single one of my ancestors was Jewish. And it does not bother me even a little bit when people call those beautiful lit up, bejewelled trees, Christmas trees. I don't feel threatened. I don't feel discriminated against. That's what they are, Christmas trees.

It doesn't bother me a bit when people say, ?Merry Christmas? to me. I don't think they are slighting me or getting ready to put me in a ghetto. In fact, I kind of like it. It shows that we are all brothers and sisters celebrating this happy time of year. It doesn't bother me at all that there is a manger scene on display at a key intersection near my beach house in Malibu. If people want a crib, it's just as fine with me as is the Menorah a few hundred yards away.

I don't like getting pushed around for being a Jew, and I don't think Christians like getting pushed around for being Christians. I think people who believe in God are sick and tired of getting pushed around, period. I have no idea where the concept came from, that America is an explicitly atheist country. I can't find it in the Constitution and I don't like it being shoved down my throat.

Or maybe I can put it another way: where did the idea come from that we should worship celebrities and we aren't allowed to worship God? I guess that's a sign that I'm getting old, too. But there are a lot of us who are wondering where these celebrities came from and where the America we knew went to.

In light of the many jokes we send to one another for a laugh, this is a little different: This is not intended to be a joke; it's not funny, it's intended to get you thinking.

Now we're asking ourselves why our children have no conscience, why they don't know right from wrong, and why it doesn't bother them to kill strangers, their classmates, and themselves.

Probably, if we think about it long and hard enough, we can figure it out. I think it has a great deal to do with 'WE REAP WHAT WE SOW.'

Funny how simple it is for people to trash God and then wonder why the world's going to hell. Funny how we believe what the newspapers say, but question what the Bible says. Funny how you can send 'jokes' through e-mail and they spread like wildfire, but when you start sending messages regarding the Lord, people think twice about sharing. Funny how lewd, crude, vulgar and obscene articles pass freely through cyberspace, but public discussion of God is suppressed in the school and workplace.

Are you laughing yet?

Funny how when you forward this message, you will not send it to many on your address list because you're not sure what they believe, or what they will think of you for sending it.

Funny how we can be more worried about what other people think of us than what God thinks of us.

Pass it on if you think it has merit.

If not, then just discard it.... no one will know you did. But if you discard this thought process, don't sit back and complain about what bad shape the world is in.

My Best Regards, Honestly and respectfully,

Ben Stein

OP posts:
Abitwobblynow · 20/11/2012 19:51

Here is the abstract from the ruling:

The article reports on the move undertaken by Nadia Eweida, a devout Christian, to address the religious discrimination practiced by the British Airways (BA) in Great Britain. She appealed against an employment tribunal ruling. The company has a dress code that mandated employees to hide or remove the crucifix while on work. After the tribunal rule on her behalf, she returned to work and the airline changed its dress code, permitting them to wear crucifixes while on work.

Note the word CHANGED. Because it was UNFAIR and DISCRIMINATED against.

Who is talking shite?

OP posts:
Dawndonna · 20/11/2012 19:53

You are obviously looking for trouble. It is unusual for anybody to be told off for breastfeeding.
British Airways are a private company. UKIP helped her take it to court.
Winterval etc is a myth.
We all know it, now, pack it in.

FreakySnuckerCupidStunt · 20/11/2012 19:56

You are talking shite, since you said that was down to 'aggressive secularism' when it had nothing to do with secularism or the government in the slightest.

TheVermiciousKnid · 20/11/2012 19:56

OP, you clearly failed to check the nonsense you posted on Snopes - no need to get arsey with others on here! Sounds like you're trying to stir...

MrsDeVere · 20/11/2012 19:57

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

noblegiraffe · 20/11/2012 19:58

What has bf in public got to do with religion anyway? Confused

CaseyShraeger · 20/11/2012 19:58

Winterval is a myth. It was an umbrella marketing term to cover a range of events (some relating to Christmas, some relating to Diwali, some relating to Ramadan and Eid, some relating to Hanukkah, some relating to Chinese New Year, some relating to regular New Year, some relating to shopping, that ran in 1997-1998. Christmas activities were still billed as "Christmas" (and Diwali activities were still billed as Diwali, and Chinese New Year activities were still billed as "Chinese New Year", etc., etc.).

When you repeatedly cite "examples" that are complete bollocks and are easily verifiable it doesn't predispose your audience to take your argument seriously or to assume that you have painstakingly researched your other examples, you know.

FreakySnuckerCupidStunt · 20/11/2012 20:02

Also, if the tribunal, i.e. the court, ruled in her behalf, that the rules were discriminatory - you really can't bloody argue that it's secularism gone mad!

MrsTerryPratchett · 20/11/2012 20:02

Can I still agree with BFing in public, sing carols and be an aggressively secular (where it applies to compulsory religion in schools) atheist OP? Is that OK with you?

I also don't really understand why someone can't wear a crucifix under their clothes rather than on top. Why do I need to see it? Is that the point of it? Confused

Catkinsthecatinthehat · 20/11/2012 20:03

Oh god, Winterval. that old chestnut. It was coined to cover the winter festival season from Halloween to Chinese New Year

From Wikipedia ^The programme of events in 1997 included theatre and arts events; marking of Diwali; candlelit tours of Aston Hall; an outdoor ice rink; a German-style Christmas market; Christmas lights in the streets; and a New Year's Eve Party. The front cover of the promotional brochure used the word "Christmas" three times and featured a photograph of the City's official Christmas tree. Each of its six pages featured the word "Christmas" in text or images.^

Softlysoftly · 20/11/2012 20:03

Arrgghhhhhhhhhh

Is this a thinly veiled dog at them thar moooslims op? You realise noone but the people who propofgate this bullshit actually cares if you have Christmas, crosses etc etc.

Bf in public is legally protected as well you know? Under sex discrimination law.

Actually fuck it I give up

Softlysoftly · 20/11/2012 20:04

Dig not dog obviously.

KeemaNaanAndCurryOn · 20/11/2012 20:06

I bloody love Christmas, but I feel pretty pushed out as it should be called Yule.

A little bit of Christmas in my life
a little bit of Hanukka by my side
A little bit of Holi's what I need
A little bit of celebrating Eid
A lbit of Fassika in the sun
El diu de los muertos all night long
Hina Matsuri here I am
A little bit of Yule makes me your man...

FreakySnuckerCupidStunt · 20/11/2012 20:07

Keema, that is brilliant.

Abitwobblynow · 20/11/2012 20:08

Because you say so Mrs DeVere.

Why should I painstakingly research an is this unreasonable topic on MN? Do you, everytime you post, or do you talk about impressions and feelings? FFS this isn't a PhD document...

OK, there is NO crowding of Christianity by secular progressive forces. It DOESN'T EXIST, because you have decreed it doesn't.

The legal abstract proving that BA applied said secular progressive judgements and was required to change their policy because the discrimination was prove, is also shite. Because you say so.

The Gramski effectiveness and success of the last 30 years of state education is rather impressive.

OP posts:
MrsTerryPratchett · 20/11/2012 20:09

Softlysoftly here is a <a class="break-all" href="http://www.google.ca/imgres?um=1&hl=en&sa=N&biw=1280&bih=709&tbm=isch&tbnid=am-3RKZ0Ye8bsM:&imgrefurl=www.dreamstime.com/royalty-free-stock-photos-veiled-dog-image17630358&docid=WY29vFhQEtivuM&itg=1&imgurl=www.dreamstime.com/veiled-dog-thumb17630358.jpg&w=308&h=450&ei=JOOrUPTmH8K2iwLH0YCoDQ&zoom=1&iact=rc&dur=475&sig=101652942560651010940&page=1&tbnh=124&tbnw=89&start=0&ndsp=25&ved=1t:429,r:0,s:0,i:69&tx=39&ty=54" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">thinly veiled dog for you.

GrimmaTheNome · 20/11/2012 20:09

A woman was reprimanded and banned for bf in a local sports centre 'because she would offend'.

offend who? Confused Not any atheist I've ever met. If someone had told me that when I was bf'ing in public I'd have told them to stop being stupid.

[as a member of a religious minority] I am NOT offended by the Christian symbols of Christmas.

Me neither. I don't know anyone who is. I don't know of any real examples of christian symbols being repressed in the UK.

The piece you quote is disingenuous (that's a polite word for it) in many ways, starting from the premise that the White House ever rebranded Christmas trees as Holiday trees. Read the snopes links ...its a lie. There are other statements that are palpably untrue - I quoted one, here's another 'where did the idea come from that we should worship celebrities and we aren't allowed to worship God?' - seriously, in America, - its a secular state which means they can worship (or not) exactly as they want.

Sunnywithachanceofshowers · 20/11/2012 20:10

YABU to post unmitigated bollocks OP.

And FWIW I'm an atheist happy for women to BF in public, love singing carols and don't get offended when people wish me 'Happy Christmas' or whatever religious celebration of their choice. I do, however, get offended by bollocks being passed off as 'so and so says'.

CaseyShraeger · 20/11/2012 20:10

Nadia Eweida LOST her case at employment tribunal. She LOST her case at Employment Appeal Tribunal. She LOST her case in the Court of Appeal. The Supreme Court refused to hear a further appeal. She took it to the European Court of Human Rights in September this year but I've not heard that they've issued a judgment yet.

BA did change its policy because it was getting hacked off with the obsessive press coverage, but Ms Eweida blatantly wasn't discriminated against.

Abitwobblynow · 20/11/2012 20:11

sorry, proven and Gramsci

OP posts:
ThatBastardSanta · 20/11/2012 20:12

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

KeemaNaanAndCurryOn · 20/11/2012 20:14

Oh yes TBS - almost as bad as that bastard baby, now what was it???

GrimmaTheNome · 20/11/2012 20:15

Keema ...unecessarily inflammatory (even if technically, I suppose, accurate)

gordyslovesheep · 20/11/2012 20:15

Christians are NOT REQUIRED to wear a cross - it is not part of being Christian to wear one so she wasn't discriminated against

WINTERVAL: is inclusive and a way of marking winter festivities which include many different festivals and faiths, all of whom pay council tax thus deserving representation. Winter festivals usually include a tree and Santa

Unless people are barricading churches NO ONE is stopping anyone from celebrating Christmas - you ARE being sill

and C+P spam emails does not a factoid make Grin

BadgersBottom · 20/11/2012 20:16

I don't get your attitude OP. If I'd posted a whole heap of steaming shite on MN which was then proven to be a whole heap of steaming shite I think I'd probably shut the fuck up and slink off.

Have you considered that as an option?

Swipe left for the next trending thread