to be frightened, firm and fucking furious?

[SomeoneElseHere]

NC as identifiable.

We live abroad in a residence where all the families go to the bar on a Friday night for drinks. The kids all run around together unsupervised. I expect people think I'm a bit paranoid and helicoptery for supervising DD but there is a swimming pool, a lake and other dangers. Parents seem to think that the bigger kids will look out for the little ones. I don't like to go there very often to be honest, because it annoys me that everyone else is chatting and drinking and I'm running round after a bunch of kids. DH thinks I'm OTT, and so is very half-hearted in his supervision.

DD is 3. She has a friend who is also 3, and another who is 4. The other kids are all older.

DH took DD alone tonight as I was feeling ill. They came back. She was wet. She had sat on the edge of the pool and dunked her legs in. Her 4 year old friend was with her. No-one else.

I am now saying that we will not go unless she is with one of us (or another adult) AT ALL TIMES. DH thinks she 'deserves another chance'. IMO it's not a case of 'another chance. It's not like she spilt juice when she wasn't sitting at the table. She got in the fricking swimming pool in the dar with no-one around (pool is hidden by wall and trees).

AIBU? This is mostly a rant, as I know I'm not BU and even if you say I am I'm not backing down.

Furious, I tell you.

[BewitchedBotheredandBewildered]

It feels a bit superfluous to add my voice, but this is so important I have to.
I was very, very laid back about supervision when my 3 kids were small. Happy to keep them up late as long as they were happy. Fine for them to be with us at parties where adults were drinking alchohol, some things are a calculated risk.
But, like other posters, I am shivering and covered in goosebumps.
Certain things cannot be compromised. Roads are one. Water is another. A child of 3 should have the eyes of an adult on them constantly, and the adult with the eyes should be in close proximity to the child.
I have 3 friends who have been at cocktail party/bbq type events around pools, with lots of kids, and one of them has drowned. One baby crawled on to the pool cover and slid under it, it took a while to find him.
Your husband really needs to realise how quickly and quietly this happens.

You aren't saying much OP. Please at least tell us that you will show him this thread

[Brycie]

God pools are a nightmare. You are right. Children have drowned in swimming lessons with adults in the pool, it's so bloody easy. You are right right right.

[IllageVidiot]

YANBU obviously, I'm just so glad your DD is safe and well.
Your H has left me speechless tbh...I hope it's guilt and shame at being caught out when he knew he was doing something wrong that was the cause of that comment because I just can't fathom an intelligent, sensible parent seriously thinking a toddler needs a 'second chance'. If toddlers, or children in general, were equipped to, and adept at, making good choices they wouldn't need us - we'd just lay some eggs and bugger off.

As someone who has recently had the unhappy task of doing a reading at the funeral of a beloved toddler of a family friend that drowned in their pond during a birthday BBQ, I just can't reconcile your H's attitude at all.
It was early evening, a group of people with other children present, in a moderately sized garden. The pond is large but not overly deep and is in, what you would assume to be, full view. Toddler son was just 3 and he loved the fishes. Knowbody knows for sure what happened, but that night ended with a tragedy and, along with the devastation of losing a child, a feeling of guilt that seems insurmountable. I wasn't there that night and I still don't know if I am grateful for that or heartbroken. No-one saw or heard anything in time to save him.
If it can happen there, it's only a matter of time before something awful happens at the bar - of course parents should have a social life and some of my happiest reollections are of being allowed to be up, playing and involved in exactly this sort of socialising but someone has to be on watch.

What is your next move with your husband?

[ilovetermtime]

YANBU

I'm also one for benign neglect, but never around water.

This thread has made my blood run cold, it really has.

[flow4]

I'm guessing the OP has been quiet because she went to bed. She's in a different time zone. She posted a while after her DH came home, so somewhere 10pm-midnight, I guess.
She posted again when it was early morning her time, and I guess she'll be back in the eve - around 3pm UK time.

OP I'm another one who agrees YADNBU.

But even if/when you go back with your DD to this club, and even though you're supervising, after hearing all these stories, I'd be inclined to insist she wears a life jacket while she runs around... That sounds a bit OTT as I say it, but I don't go to parties where 3 year olds run around near pools. I wouldn't ever have let my kids near a pool without armbands at that age - even in the day time, with full supervision and no alcohol involved.

And I'd put the frighteners on the club too...

I'm so glad your DD and her friend were ok. :)

[spottyock]

It sounds as though all of the adults are gaining a false sense of security from each other's apathy.
This is a tragedy waiting to happen.

[Proudnscary]

You are NOT overreacting, you are NOT being unreasonable.

Children do drown around water without supervision.

My son nearly drowned when he was five and was left for 30 seconds (by my dh - twat ).

Also I totally agree with the danger of a big crowd and everyone thinking someone else has an eye on their children.

I am also a benign neglect advocate and am far from being a helicopter parent but this is just insanity.

[Brycie]

SolidGold, this thread isn't doing that at all. I don't think you understand how dangerous pools are. Lifeguards schmifeguards. They only lull you into a false sense of security in a situation like that. Covers too. Three year olds shouldn't be running around in the dark at a club when all the adults looking after them are drinking. It's hardly helicopter parenting and waa my child can't have a "social life" (joke joke joke). It's a completely normal perspective.

[Brycie]

"flapping and squawking"

Good God.

[Proudnscary]

Oh SGB is great but she does like to be the voice of controversy and take it too far sometimes! I'd ignore that remark Brycie.

[Brycie]

Oh is that what it is I thought she meant it.

[pigletmania]

YANBU at all. Better be safe than sorry. Your dh is a bit dim about safety

[BiteTheTopsOffIcedGems]

I know someone who's child drowned in the pool in their back garden. 3 years old.
YANBU.

[hattymattie]

In France two children age 6 and 4 I think disappeared during a party this summer in some apartments. At first the Police thought they'd been kidnapped and a huge search was announced - this was on the national news and everything. They were found 3 or 4 days later at the bottom of an unused swimming pool in a neighouring house - they'd seen the pool from the apartment balcony and slipped out for a swim whilst the adults socialised.

[LittleBairn]

YANBU another chance to do what exactly drown? Frankly I'd be barely on speaking terms if my DH thought it was ok to sit in a bar and not supervise his 4 year old!

[Rindercella]

YANBU at all. I don't see how anyone could actually think that it is reasonable to let an unaccompanied 3 year old child run around near open water.

My mother still shivers when she remembers the phone call she received from the husband of a friend of hers some 40 years ago. He'd called to say his wife and their children couldn't come for tea the following day as they'd been at their country club that afternoon and their 3 year son had disappeared and was later found in the pool. He had drowned.

Lots of adults boozing and chatting, unsupervised small children running around and open water just do not mix. It is a tragedy waiting to happen.

[Rindercella]

Oh, and as for giving your DD 'another chance'?! Another chance for what? For showing her father to be totally irresponsible in his duty of care to her?

[differentnameforthis]

Perhaps the op could clarify what time they are regularly out drinking at night with their 3 year old.

Pretty sure it doesn't actually matter & makes absolutely NO difference to what happened. Seems the op's dh would have been careless whatever time of the day.

Unless you need to know the time so you can judge her & berate her for having her child out late (as you have already done so) in which case, shame on you for using this thread to judge!

[IloveJudgeJudy]

Another one here whose parenting style is benign neglect. But who is uncompromising around pools. DS2 nearly drowned in a council pool here. We had only looked away for a split second and he was face down in the water. The lifeguard hadn't noticed. YANBU at all. As others have said it's quiet.

[kittyandthegoldenfontanelles]

No. No shame on me. As I said earlier. I don't think children this young should be regularly out so late so adults can drink. That is the point for me.

Her husband, and by the sounds of it all the other adults are being neglectful and the op seems the only one recognising and trying to rectify this. However, I don't think the child should be in that situation in the first place. I feel she should be safely tucked up in bed.

The post you quoted above, different was in response to someone suggesting that night time needed be past the child's bed time.

That's my opinion, I've made it, now I'm off.

[flow4]

kitty, you seem to have missed some background info: the OP lives in a hot overseas country where children have long afternoon naps and are awake later than might be usual in the UK. Children in hot countries are often 'tucked up in bed' during the hottest part of the day, rather than the evenings, which are coolest.

Also, 'the club' is an important part of many ex-pats lives - and just as important for the children as the adults. It wouldn't be good for the OP's child to be deprived entirely of this social contact.

[differentnameforthis]

It doesn't matter, the time is irrelevant. Where you think the child should be is irrelevant.

It's summer here, we are a few weeks off our summer holidays (when the girls will get 7 weeks off school/kindy) and my girls are up way past bedtime because it is too damn hot to sleep, so we relax/play/chat in the pool & they go to bed when it is (albeit slightly) cooler. Seriously, going to bed when it is 35 odd is NOT comfortable.

You also miss the point that sometimes it is too damn hot to socialise most days, so we do a lot of it at night when the temp drops enough to feel comfortable outside. For a 3yr old this is no issue, as they don't have school the next day.

Time is irrelevant. This could easily have happened at 4pm at a kids get together. You take umbridge because the op's dh dared to be socialising too!

[differentnameforthis]

and my girls will be up way past bedtime