to wish I had whatever it takes NOT to be childbirth phobic?

[emeraldgirl1]

Thinking about this more and more (am 22 wks pregnant) and thinking about it now after reading the thread on here about someone sympathising with a woman about having to have a c section.

I have never, ever been able to understand the desire to have a v-birth. It just doesn't make any sense to me at all why anyone would prefer to do it that way. I have always known, btw, that this is not a reasonable, sensible, logical thought!! I am phobic about childbirth, I think down to the fact that every day on my birthday since I can remember, I would be regaled with the merry tale of how my mum had haemorraghed and almost died giving birth to me.

Add in the fact that not a single female member of my family these past 5 years has managed to have a successful vaginal birth, including 2 truly horrendous emergency C-sections for my sister, and I can easily trace the roots of my phobia!

I put off the decision to try to conceive for many years because I just couldn't even begin to countenance the idea of childbirth.

The problem is such that I am in the process (I hope) of getting agreement for an elective C-section when my baby is due.

But - unexpectedly to myself, because I never thought I'd feel this way - I am starting to feel bad and guilty and almost slightly grubby about it.

Everywhere I go I seem to encounter pregnant women talking calmly about their birth plans, which all seem to involve nothing more than light reflexology and a lavender candle ( I jest, and I know they'll probably be yelling for epidurals when it actually comes to it, but I admire their plans all the same, even if I still can't understand how the hell they can possibly want that!)

I am starting to feel that something is wrong with me/missing in me, that I literally can't even think about what they are planning. :(

I am also coming to terms with the fact that an elective c-section will mean taking the baby out a week before due date and feeling awful about that - shouldn't it 'cook' right up until it is ready?!

FWIW I have never thought of this as the 'easy' option but now I am hearing people talk about major surgery and pulling faces at the talk of a c-section and I just feel pathetic and awful and ashamed and weak.

Never thought I'd be at all bothered by this!!

Oh dear Bella I am really sorry :( Hope you're recovered now.

This is the other thing - try as I might (and I do try, even going to the lengths of looking at that positive birth story website) I ONLY know people in RL who have had horrendous experiences. I know only one woman who had a good v-birth. I am not saying they are not out there, as I know they are! But my own experience of hearing about it is only negative and terrifying. It's not pain I am scared of, it's uncertainty and loss of control of the environment.

Another pregnant woman terrified of surgery and spinal block. I wish I could avoid my impending section but I have been convinced by even the most hardy homebirth advocates that in my situation, the risks to both baby and I are too high...

You need to do what is best for you and since you are posting here you are keen to make an informed decision. Do not be judged by others. This is a valuable lesson as you embark on the parenthood adventure. There is always someone who will disagree with your choices.

May I suggest that you try and speak with an experienced doula? Many offer a free initial consultation...

Missy: "A phobia is a phobia. You can't help it, and forcing you to confront it at a usually scary time anyway would be awful"

Yep, absolutely can testify to this.

Emerald, I'm wondering from your later posts if there's a small part of you that would like to have a vaginal birth?

Cadmum you are giving me too much credit!! Trouble is, I feel like I am NOT keen to make an informed decision, I am keen simply to avoid the whole hellish issue of a v-birth. That's what's making me feel bad, I think - that I fear that deep down I know that even if the decision was NOT informed and careful I would take it anyway as I just cannot confront the idea of vaginal birth. I feel like I have made a decision without considering the alternative, and I think that's why I am feeling bad right now.

I had an elective cs because I've been tokophobic since my early teens, to avoid any judgeiness or if i couldnt be bothered to explain it to some people I did sometimes tell people that I was having a section because of a bad back but most of the time I was honest and I only received one negative comment which was a 'oh just get on with it' to which I responded 'that's not an option for me' and left it at that. I didn't get my decision from the consultant until I was 36 weeks but at each appointment I made it clear that a vaginal birth was not going to happen (unless i was very unlucky and had a spontaneous birth) and that if the decision was going to be no then I wanted to know what the next stage was in order for me to ensure a section I.e would I need to see a different consultant, speak to the hospital chief exec etc. They agreed the section for 39 weeks which is standard for a first baby. My section was lovely, I found the whole experience really calm and positive and the recovery was no where near as bad as I thought, ds was born at 10am, latched on by ten fifteen and I went home at four the next day.

Tokophobia is horrible and has been a factor in why I had a baby at 35 and not earlier. Please don't feel bad about your decision and good luck

Cailin - nope There is, however, a huge part of me that would like to be a person who could do that IYSWIM. There's a big part of me that wishes I could just roll the dice and see what happens and try to get the baby out without surgery. But that doesn't translate into actually being willing to do it. Frustratingly. I hope that makes sense?!

I'll be having my 3rd in April
Emsmaman put it perfectly well in that, the judginess that you'll get over every decision regarding your kids starts now
Try to secure your date for your section and then forget about it. Move on, don't mention it to anyone, just say you haven't decided about your plans yet -and that it's got feck all to do with them
I was surrounded by natural birthing, chanting types too and I let it spoil a large proportion of my 1st pregnancy. All that matters is that we all have a safe, informed choice that is best for us as individuals.

I think you ARE being sensible because if you go into it very scared, a vaginal birth might be more painful and slower to progress, leading to higher risk of complications (correct me anyone if I'm wrong).

I had a baby around the same time as a friend. She had an elective c-section and I had a natural birth. She has much fonder memories of her son's birth than I do of mine (and I was lucky to have a relatively straightforward experience).

Mine were all VB, but I absolutely stand up for anyone's right to have a CS if that's what works for them. I'm more scared of the idea of an operation, and besides, it never occurred to me that I might have difficulty so I just sort of went with it because no-one suggested any different (fortunately it was more or less straightforward, though certainly no fun - I can't say I recommend it). So it's not necessarily braver to go for VB, just a different form of cowardice! Like I didn't have an epidural, not because I was brave but because I was more afraid of the idea of a tap in my spine. (I had pethidine though, and they practically had to wrestle the gas and air out of my grip.)

Anyway, sometimes VBs don't happen however much you wanted one, and then you'd feel you had failed because you'd spent your life believing it was the "right" way to have babies and there you were having one the "wrong" way. Conversely, you've always known VB was the "wrong" way for you. Am quite sure it was down to your mother drumming into you how very horrible it was - Larkin was right, your mum and dad do fuck you up! But also it could be your instinct telling you that you are not best designed to get a baby out that way, given your family history. By the sound of it CS will be best not only for you, but for your baby.

I'd be inclined, once the harpies inevitably find out that you did it, you know, the other way, to say the obstetrician strongly recommended it in your circumstances. Lay it on a bit thick if you must. Hint darkly at all sorts of potential complications. With any luck they'll be so excited at your exotic problems that they'll forget to lay a guilt trip on you.

I get it. I'm just wondering why you're so hard on yourself. Can you pinpoint why you wish that? Is it to do with feeling a "failure" if you don't?

emeraldgirl, I wish we could trade places as I would love the opportunity to experience one last labour and delivery. The reality is that we are all individuals and need to do what is best for ourselves in whatever situation arises.

I want to say that you should try and deliver vaginally but that is easy for me to say because I have done it four times without a single worry. Ask me to go to the dentist and I become completely irrational. I would rather have my fingernails pulled out.

I think you ARE very brave to post here and to consider options for overcoming your fear.

Cailin I think it's because in general in life I believe in trying things out and giving them a go, no matter what. Trouble is that the mere thought of 'giving this a go' makes me feel sick with terror, because if it isn't going ok and you do end up with problems, an emergency, an emergency c-section etc, those are all serious things that I just can't face the panic of. But I still feel ridiculous and bad and scaredy-cat that I'm just not even prepared to give it a go. I tend to do pretty much what people tell me in life and don't like to be a moaner or 'let the side down...

You must not feel pathetic. As long as you have looked in to the pros and cons (which it seems you have) then your decision is the right thing for you and your baby. Just as the lavender candle brigade's is for them.

For what it's worth, have you considered hypnobirthing? Pre doing the course, I was totally convinced that I wanted consultant led care as that would be "safer" and "better".

Definitely, definitely think it has it's place but after doing tonnes of research and discussing with different people (including medics in the family) I'm going to try out the midwife led unit which is adjacent to the consultant led ward in our local hospital as I think it might actually give me the birth experience that I would like. Even if I do go in to the consultant led ward, the hypnobirthing seems v good for general calming techniques so whatever/wherever you end up, it could be really helpful.

However, just to reiterate, I absolutely do not think you should feel bad about an elective section: your baby and your choices. We are v lucky that we have all of these options for giving birth and yiu're just picking th right one for you. We can't al be the same

But giving birth is scary. It just is. No one sails into it thinking "Oh it'll all be fine, what a jolly day out." Being afraid isn't weak or ridiculous, it's normal. It's ok to be afraid.

For you the fear has become insurmountable. And luckily you have another option. So why not take it? Giving birth vaginally is an experience, I grant you, but not one most women would like to repeat. It's just a necessary evil. The important thing is the baby. And you will have him/her in your arms. How he/she got there really doesn't matter.

Emerald, if anyone gives you shit on this thread, I swear to god they will have a fight on their hands. I have to be honest, this being AIBU, I'm sure it will happen too. This really isn't the best place for this thread.

There are a few people on MN who have experience of what you are dealing with and are regulars in the childbirth section (which is a lot tamer than AIBU). They are great. You really are not being unreasonable.

I just wanted to say, you aren't alone and the whole subject is a taboo mess that too few people really understand and talk about properly because it is just so connected with worth as a woman, self asteem and it not being socially acceptable. Too often people say they understand and wave a book about claiming it will change your life and not having a clue or proper understanding how deep this phobia can run for some women.

People seem to feel mentally-based reasons such as phobias are not as "worthy" as physical reasons for c-sections, because that's the sort of ridiculous society we live in.
This^

I am impressed that you became pregnant despite your phobia, given that you didn't know beforehand if a c-section was possible. That shows great determination and strength on your part, and I'm glad you're getting the birth that is best for you.
And this^

I put off the decision to try to conceive for many years because I just couldn't even begin to countenance the idea of childbirth.
Still doing that^

MWs have been quite difficult with me and a pregnant friend of a friend (before she knew I was pregnant) went on and on about evils of C-sections and what the hell was wrong with people who wanted one.
I am frightened of facing this^

I have never thought of this as the 'easy' option but now I am hearing people talk about major surgery and pulling faces at the talk of a c-section and I just feel pathetic and awful and ashamed and weak.
Fed up of all the too posh to push shit and the automatic assumption that its about pain too?

I should add that I can't tell anyone in RL about the planned section (except H obviously and best friend) as I am embarrassed and ashamed. My mum and MIL would have a thing or two to say, I'm quite sure!
I've managed to tell a couple of friends who were very supportive when I explained my reasoning, but I was picky about who I told in the first place. I can't even begin to contemplate telling my mum, and god forbid my MIL who delights in saying how they had to 'get the block and tackle out' to get my DH out.

FWIW Theres a lady on the childbirth section who is a regular who has a very good saying about it when people make the usual comments about everyone being frightened about birth. She says "You wouldn't tell a depressed person that they were a bit down in the dumps." And where you are at is similar because you have a phobia, and thats something you can't just 'get over'. Its a mental health issue - a phobia is a type of anxiety disorder - it should be treated by others in the same fashion.

You should NEVER EVER feel guilty for the way you feel or as if you have failed in someway. You haven't. You, yourself said you know where its come from and actually when you start talking about how you've had the idea of childbirth being difficult and dangerous drummed into you repeatedly from an early age its very logical and understandable you feel the way you do. Tbh, to feel the opposite would be more illogical. You can't just wave a magic wand and make those deeply ingrained feelings go away. I wish you could, as it would save a lot of people a lot of heartache.

Anyone who does judge you differently is, quite frankly, an ignorant pig. Oh and that midwife needs a good slap.

Sorry for millions of typos in last post - hope it makes sense.

BTW - I have a friend who, for various reasons, had an elective section for the birth of her second child. Natural for the first. She said it was a wonderful experience and really helped her manage the anxiety she had. She's recovered really well too. It's definitely a valid choice

I think you are extremely sensible to know your limits. I have the opposite phobia, of surgery and had it written into both birth plans that I would only have a C-section under general anaesthetic. It is not rational. I think sometimes, if you have an extreme phobia, you just have to be grateful you have the choices you do, as if you had to do it the other way, you would undoubtedly be traumatised.

I am all for planned C-sections on medical grounds (and I know how many consultant obs-gynae choose it for themselves or their wives).

Well, it will hurt, you'll just get pain in different parts of your anatomy than the VB'ers. So you can be brave about that. And you'll get the same sleepless nights as the rest of us.

Oh yes, whether you breast or bottle feed, terry/disposables, wrap baby too warmly or not warmly enough, right size/type of cot, pram, use or non-use of dummy, when to introduce solids, when/how to potty train, sleep training, approach to crying, use of sling, EVERYONE is going to have an opinion. The one thing you can be sure of is that whatever you have decided to do, someone is going to think is the worst possible choice and you are putting your baby's whole development, if not actual life, at risk. And you know what? They'll ALL be talking bollocks.

I got some really authoritative advice on sleep training DS4 from a well-meaning gentleman who had never had anything to do with babies in his whole life, as far as I could make out. He was an only child with no nieces, nephews or younger cousins, a confirmed bachelor as the saying goes, no medical training, but he was right, and I, a mother of four, aunt of another four, elder sister of two and cousin of - oh, can't count, there were a lot of 'em - was wrong. I thanked him for his input and did it my way.

I had to have a C-section with my first and like you felt frightened of a V-birth and had built it up to something impossible in my head. With DS2 and DS3 I had a V-birth and it was so much easier then expected and I actually preferred it.

DO NOT be made to feel bad by midwives. Quite understandably, lots are in favour of MLU. However, that does not mean that this is the right option for everyone.

I get so cross when there's an attitude with other women and health care professionals that there is a "right" and a "wrong" way of doing things and the pros and cons can't be discussed openly. Instead, we all have to go down a fairy path of pretending that one way is better than another and all the options can't be openly examined/discussed. It's a free country and we can and should all make whatever choices we damn well want once properly informed of all the pros and cons.

It's up to you what you say to people but do not feel ashamed. You can just say you had a section - end of story. No need to say if it was elective or emergency. Although, there is no shame in it being elective.

FWIW - although I've done the hypnobirthing, our practitioner was at pains to point out that the birth was all about choices. So if we decided we wanted an epidural/section whatever, that was fine. As long as we knew the pros and cons. She was just there to put them forward in an impartial manner and teach us to stay calm, if possible - whatever happened.

Therefore, DH is quite clear that if I'm not coping, I'm having an epidural. We just need to decide what we think/woukd do about assisted delivery as there woukd be a higher chance of that.

Sorry - I keep popping up with another thing to say But I feel so sad for you when I read your other posts as I think you're tremendously brave to be confronting this issue the way you are.

You're not pathetic. You're simply a human being with feelings, as opposed to a robot.

As you'd already realised, women who've had VBs aren't stronger than you- they just had different backgrounds and different fears. For example, I turned down an epidural- not because I'm Superwoman but because I was really, really, really scared of having an injection in my back! By the time the pain got back enough for me to get over said abject terror, it was too late for me to have one!

I dont know if i would have called myself phobic, but it certainly didnt appeal and i never had children until great old age! I would probably have done the vaginal route if I'd had to but I was blocking out the thought.. In the event, I was having twins, and the consultant decided section was my best bet. I scratched my chin and pretended to wrestle with the descision, when really I wanted to fall at her feet say "thank you thank you"! It meant TECHNICALLY, I wasnt wimping out as i had been "advised".

I dont want to minimise things, but the section was an absolute breeze. I did actually go into labour early and had contractions for a while before they swung into action, and on that experience alone, thank god for spinals, I really dont know how people can go through that for hours and hours before squeezing a baby out.

Recovery.........well I shuffled about the ward painfully, as the wound was a little tender, and fitted right in with the vaginal births who were also shuffling about painfully with sore bits. i was in no worse state than anyone else.

2 days later, no problems, didnt even open the painkillers they gave me to take home. I was driving within a fortnight, and I ran a half marathon when they were 9 weeks old.

4 years later, and even more elderly, surprise pregnancy. Was told the VBAC issues, did more chin rubbing before saying "well of course you know best" and "accepting" having another section. Again, pain minimal, recovery rapid. No half marathon this time!! (but thats because having twins has shafted my fitness regime!)

Not a bit guilty about it. Am I a woose? A scaredy cat ? Feckin right. So shoot me!

Truly, judgey types should attend to their own vaginas and their own births and butt out. Do what you feel comfortable with.

Sorry to derail the thread but I ran a half marathon when they were 9 weeks old. I can't even begin to say how impressed I am! Please tell me you had done some training prior to the event and weren't about to just decide to do this the night before or something?!

are you Paula Radcliffe?!