to be fucked off that stroes still feel the need to define toys by gender?

[GretaGip]

I've been wandering around all day looking for inspiration.

And it seems that within toy sales it's imperatiove to be prosciptive.

Surely one of the major retailers could realise that cupcakes and butterflies for grils and transport and dinosaurs for boys is just ouutdated and break free from the molud and then just sit back and wait for hoards of satisfued MNers to boost their sales.

AIBsimplistic?

Sigh.

aww thankyou squoosh i hope my kids grow up thinking so :) they seem to be turning out ok so far!

That it is exactly 5mad. Pink isn't bad, toy kitchens aren't bad. It is the systematic idea that these things are ONLY for girls is what is bad.

And not only that they are only for girls, but that things for girls are inherently shit.

Some of my pupils were doing a mythical creatures crossword the other day. One of the answers was "unicorn". "EUGH," screeched some boys. "Unicorns are rubbish, they are for prom queens and GIRLS."

yes exactly and even if we as parents dont reinforce those stereotypes we are simply fighting the tide against the massive consumer based society we live in, the messages are out there, they are surrounded by it from birth and as much as we tell our kids toys are toys and pink is fine for boys etc, they STILL are affected by the advertising and the peer pressure etc, its bloody depressing actually :(

My dds are 3 and 5. For at least 2 years they have divided up colours, toys, clothes and even items in nature into 'boyish' and 'girlish', and dismissed the boyish options as being suitable for them.

They are incredulous that I could like blue as a colour, as I am a girl and girls only like light colours, preferably pink and purple.

Dd1 - she is only 5 remember - was teased in school for having 'boy' shoes. They are just trainer type (with butterflies on ffs), rather than mary jane style - which is more practical for a reception year child heading into winter ?

Even tonight, we were choosing new duvet covers - dd1 was really excited about a 'space' themed one I told her about, then saw it was dark blue and black, and rejected it as being boyish.

I have tried from an early age to gently encourage them to think more widely, and reject the marketing they see all around them. But they are simply reflecting the divisions they see in the world, to them it is just a given fact that the world is divided in this way. It makes me sad, frustrated, angry. Hopefully as they grow older they can learn to think more independently, but they are starting life with an unfair disadvantage.

For every child (because boys are affected by this too) that manages to think against the stereotyping, there will be many more who are shoe-horned into gender 'appropriate' jobs and roles in relationships, and their lives will be the poorer for it. As will all of ours.

I work in ICT - in my company women are woefully under-represented. Something like 70/30. We employ a lot of off-shore contractors from India though and a much larger proportion of them are female. It seems still that UK/European girls are not doing the techy degrees.

That's the thing - it doesn't matter how good the influence is at home (and in many homes, let's face it, it's actually appalling), as soon as your child is socialised, the home influence is a mere drop in an Alantic-sized ocean of school, peers, music, culture, films, TV; society, basically.

Just to clarify, the example I gave in my previous post wasn't to imply that this is what's going to happen to all boys/men (and likewise, all girls/women), but on a population, cultural, societal level, it is what happens.

Otherwise, how do you explain women doing the vast bulk of child-rearing, house-work, maternity parental-leave, career-dropping-out-of, etc, etc?

Again, it's perfectly fine if individual children veer off and prefer traditionally feminine and masculine toys. But it cannot be denied that it becomes problematic when whole sets of toys are defined as 'for boys' and 'for girls' because the message it starts to send out is part of a behemoth of messages being sent out at all stages of baby/toddler/child/adolescent/teen/adult development.

And we end up here, where you see thread after thread after thread of women complaining that her partner doesn't help in the home and the poisonous resentment that that causes to partnerships/marriages/families.

This 'small', seemingly insignificant stuff does matter. That people absolutely refuse to see it is incredible to me.

I think you all have too much time on your hands. Who cares if boys and girls toys are divided, kept together, segregated according to toy type ... Whatever. I just do NOT understand what the problem is.

My kids are raised to our standards wrt the choices that we make for them and where appropriate the choices they make for themselves. They couldn't give a monkeys about the aisle placement of the things they want in toysrus - neither do I. We decide what we are getting and go out and purchase it. If DS wants a frilly pink tutu then we get it - who cares what aisle it's in???

I think more faith should be placed in our own ability to raise our children according to what we believe is right. There are so many more important things to worry about. Poverty, disease, violent crime, war. This is a classic first world issue if I have ever seen one.

Yes, because my tiny little brain only has space to worry about exactly one thing.

That's funny Somerset :-)

Sticking to my 1st world issue POV. I'll leave you to your unnecessary worries that little Johnny might be irrevocably damaged as a human being because you place far too much importance on gender stereotyping (the mere phrase gives it life).

You're quite right, you just do NOT understand.

it's simplistic to declare that it doesn't matter and you buy whatever they want. That's exactly what people are taking about here - this kind of stuff affects what they want. Yes, you'll get a girl who might never ask for a dinosaurs and lego technics, because those are not meant for her, and you'll have no problems shopping in girls section - but is that really a good thing if her interest are limited to pink sparkles only?

MrRected - has you ds ever asked for a frilly pink tutu? I am interested.

There seem to be a lot of parents on here who are just desperate to put their son in a pink tutu. Which is weird since I've never seen any boy in a pink tutu beyond the age of about 3.

That people think that this stuff doesn't matter, that it's just random, that you can put whatever in whatever section of a toy shop and it'll have no impact just blows my mind.

Oh the old 'people are dying in Syria, how can you bother yourselves with such a trivial matter like sexism'. In other words 'shut up ladies'.

Interesting that the male contribution to this thread has been so defensive and dismissive and so satisfied with the status quo.

fromesme my almost 8 year old has a purple sparkly tutu that he chose and wears, until recently he wore it out, over a pair of jeans, it looks rather funky, but he has realised it not 'acceptable' to some people :( i think thats a sad indictment of our society actually, its not ok that our children feel pressured like this.

and yes there are worse things in the world, there is always someone worse off, that doesnt mean we shouldnt try and change things that are a problem.

I have 4 girls and 1 boy . I tend to buy the things I think they will like rather than rely on the toy shop to tell me. So my older daughter liked cars I bought cars regardless of the fact the picture on the box was of boys. My three year old however loves all things pink and princess's so I get that. My ds has never expressed much of an interest in dolls, tutus etc but if he did I would imagine he would get one.

What's your point 5dcs ? People seem to be making the same point over and over - "Oh I just buy my kids what they want".

So why are there still boy and girl sections? Why are all the kids I know so convinced on what is for boys and what is for girls? Why do men and women still end up having, in general, totally different interests and priorities?

Yes, there seems to be a real resistance to making the leap from:

"I buy my children what they want, regardless of which aisle it is in"

to:

asking whether the aisle it is in affects whether the child wants it.

And whilst there will be many examples of a girl who loves trucks or whatever, at a population level, there is a bias. So you must believe one of the following:

1. children are not influenced and the statistical skewing of toy preference is genetic;
2. children are not influenced and it is all about the parents and what they encourage;
3. a combination of 2 and 3

OR

1. children are influenced - and you can believe that there is a genetic component, or that there isn't, and have views about the relative importance of influences like family and friends.

but not all people DO buy their kids what they want and we dont raise them in a bubble so whilst at a young age we can tell them its fine to like what they like and help nurture that they ARE exposed to advertising and societal influences pretty much from birth and even without anything being explicitly said to them they pick up on this.

so yes its bloody annoying that when i click on a website to buy toys they are seperated in girls/boys or that they advertising is geared one way or another, it reinforces the message that these are the things our children SHOULD like and that they should stick to gender stereotypes, i think thats pretty crap actually.

I am 100% female .... So there goes your sexism theory.

Still standing by my original opinion that this is a FIRST WORLD problem.

I guarantee you the kids living on the breadline in 3rd world countries (I was raised in one) couldn't give a shit about the blue aisle or the pink aisle.

Fwiw - My DS1 told anybody who would listen - for about two years - that when he grew up he wanted to be a girl. He wore dresses, would always insist on butterfly's and fairies when a face painter was around. I had no problem with this at all.

God MN is a vipers nest at times. If one has a differing opinion, you are either branded a troll or a man!!! You might want to examine your own views on sexism before throwing stones!

Um - I think the man thing came from the Mr in your name.....

And practically EVERYTHING on MN is a first world problem. I hate my MIL - get a fucking grip - there are people DYING out there, dontcha know....MN might as well shut down. It is frustrating that mothers of daughters think this is so unimportant.

I hate this "first world problem" bullshit that has recently replaced "starving kids in Africa".

No shit, there are other huge problems in the world. Seeing as there's really fuck all I can do about the Syrian crisis, Somalia or the Gaza strip, then maybe I can at least try to educate the kids I teach to be decent human beings who don't judge on gender.

Or should I just tell them to do what they want, because it's not important.