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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to be fucked off that stroes still feel the need to define toys by gender?

404 replies

GretaGip · 14/11/2012 22:02

I've been wandering around all day looking for inspiration. Hmm

And it seems that within toy sales it's imperatiove to be prosciptive. Sad

Surely one of the major retailers could realise that cupcakes and butterflies for grils and transport and dinosaurs for boys is just ouutdated and break free from the molud and then just sit back and wait for hoards of satisfued MNers to boost their sales.

AIBsimplistic?

Sigh.

OP posts:
Portofino · 16/11/2012 20:21

It is not all marketing. We TREAT children differently. We do it innately without even realising right from when they are born. You have to understand this, and take a step back to even see it. TPF up there exemplified it magnificently when he said that his dd's played girly things independently from him, whereas a boy was more likely to try and attract his interest. Of COURSE his dd's play with their girly toys independently - because they HAVE ALREADY LEARNT that daddy is not interested in such things.

RudolphUcker · 16/11/2012 20:23

Have you read the Marianne Gr-somethinggerman book 'There's a good girl' Porto? It's fascinating. A journal of how baby girls are treated in subtly different ways from birth.

MrsDeVere · 16/11/2012 20:26

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Portofino · 16/11/2012 20:27

No - I shall look that up - thanks Rudolph.

RudolphUcker · 16/11/2012 20:31

bit dated but interesting

Portofino · 16/11/2012 20:34

Now my DH, whilst not perfect, is a pretty good hands on Dad. He changed nappies, did feeds, hoovers, clears up after himself. He will sit for hours and do jigsaws, build Lego, do crafts etc. He has much more patience than me. BUT he would never, ever play Barbie. He used to say - oh Dad doesn't do dollies, that's one for your mum. It sounds like nothing, quite unimportant - but is just another reinforcement that MEN aren't interested in stuff like that.

SomersetONeil · 16/11/2012 20:42

I have to say, there is some spectacular point-missing going on here.

It's fine if your DD specifically likes dolls and your DS likes cars. That really is fine.

But by dividing toys up into 'girls' and 'boys', all children are being corralled into one or the other, regardless of their individual preferences. Being dictated to and directed. So much so, that all the pram-pushing and doll-playing-with that boys do at 3 or 4 is swept away, and they're positively mocked for it by other children by the time they're 7 or 8.

This is the point, and this is the problem.

Portofino · 16/11/2012 20:49

And the model is archaic - as men DO do housework, ironing, baby feeding, and women go to work as doctors and architects and chemists these days-- and the stereotypes don't exist in the way they did for OUR generation. As grimbletart succinctly put it, it is like they are trying turn back the clock.

MakeItALarge · 16/11/2012 20:52

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Portofino · 16/11/2012 20:55

I missed an important comma there - my point is that women in their 30s/40s today have benefited immensely from the strong feminist actions in the last 20/30/40 years. Today it is as if the battle is won, and we are seeing the backlash. Let's get the girls back to the kitchen, looking pretty, enough of the feminist stuff - we all know women have equal rights these days Hmm

SomersetONeil · 16/11/2012 20:59

"And the model is archaic - as men DO do housework, ironing, baby feeding"

Well, in enlightened households they do. But there was a depressingly huge number of women on the Asda Christmas thread (I'm referring to it again, because all these things are intrinsically linked) who said the portrayal was reliaistic and what happens in their house... :(

Grimble is right - it's like we're going backwards. It seems so different for girls and young women now compared to how it was when I was their age (I'm 38).

FromEsme · 16/11/2012 21:06

Gender stereotyping would be "men are like xyz" or "all men do this".

That's not what was said. If you want me to clarify, what I mean is that certain men do this thing of coming along and explaining things that are either perfectly obvious or have nothing to do with what is being said.

Do women do it? No doubt. But then, I am far more interested in other women's opinions on women's issues. I don't really see how a man can come along and think he knows more about women's issues than a woman. In the same way, as a Scottish person, I am more interested in what other Scots have to say about Scottish independence.

You might think that's hypocritical. That's fine. Personally I just get bored of being told how very wrong I am about things that I know more about.

Portofino · 16/11/2012 21:07

Sad but true, Somerset. I still ORGANISE Xmas, even if we share the tasks. Ironically I found my copy of WifeWork under a pile of paperwork recently Grin

FromEsme · 16/11/2012 21:09

Somerset I am a feminist. My partner is in many ways very enlightened. We no longer live together, mainly because he had no sense of sharing housework equally and was perfectly happy to let me do it. I couldn't believe it.

Likewise it is my mother's birthday this week and my brother and father have done nothing towards it. Despite the fact that I am doing a PGCE which involves about an 80-hour week, it is me who is making the cake, inviting people to dinner and making dinner. It just doesn't occur to them to offer. I have had to delegate tasks to my 60-year-old father, which just seems so wrong to me.

I think we have a bloody long way to go before men take an equal part in household chores.

Portofino · 16/11/2012 21:11

You COULD just not do it? I know, I know....

YoullScreamAboutItOneDay · 16/11/2012 21:12

That's the thing isn't it? You don't do it and people you love who can't do it miss out - the person whose birthday it is, the sick relative, the children who don't get a party.

FromEsme · 16/11/2012 21:13

My mum's birthday stuff? Not really. Can you imagine how disappointed she'd be that her ENTIRE family are shit? I am by no means a martyr, but what else can you do in that situation?

FromEsme · 16/11/2012 21:15

Exactly YoullScream . When it came to the housework and my partner, I just left all his stuff and tidied my own. But when I came home to the electricity being off for the 3rd time, I just couldn't cope any more. "YOU could just have done it," was his constant refrain.

Every time I go round to his now, he seems to be coping fine. As soon as some have some other mug to do shit for them, they'll just revert to slobs.

Portofino · 16/11/2012 21:16

If that was me, I think I would take her out, just me and say I want to spoil you - but I am too busy to chivvy the others I am afraid. They will not learn if you carry them.

Portofino · 16/11/2012 21:17

YOU are not responsible for their relationship with her.

FromEsme · 16/11/2012 21:19

I know Porto but I also know that's not what she wants. She wants to feel like everyone cares and that everyone made an effort. She has had a shit life. My dad is shit to her, my brother is a knob. She is a bit of a knob as well, quite often, but I feel bad for her. I don't normally do anything for the rest of my family but this one time, I will do it. They know I'm pissed off, but they STILL do nothing.

Anyway, way off topic.

SomersetONeil · 16/11/2012 21:25

2 YO boy, with no pre-conceived ideas of the world - gravitates to whichever toys capture his imagination - cars, Lego, dolls, push-chairs, ribbons, planes.......

8 YO boy who is out in the world, going to school, away from the family influence, watching TV, seeing signs in toy shops saying 'girls' and 'boys' Wink is affected and swayed by peers - is mocked for choosing toy/game X over toy/game Y...

Learns the lesson that 'girls' things are embarrassing, not worthy of him, silly, unimportant. It wasn't inate in him - we can all see that from observing the 2 YO. He's learnt it.

Boy turns into man. Doesn't pull his weight around the house, because tidying and cleaning is silly, unimportant, not worthy of him.

Can some people really not join the dots? Can some people really say these things are not important and worth thinking about? Is anyone on the "doesn't matter" side having a 'light-bulb' moment...?

MakeItALarge · 16/11/2012 21:49

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

5madthings · 16/11/2012 21:51

see my ds3 has always loved pink and sparkly and fairies etc and until VERY recently would wear it out the house, even on non uniform days and no-one has specifically said anything to him, his school are very good at dealing with stuff like that and the kids all dress up and his teacher has said many of the boys dress up in the 'girly' princess dresses etc, they are JUST playing, as they shoudl be! but he HAS picked up on the marketing and the stereotypes and he 'feels' like he shouldnt do it, he still DOES play with it all at hoem and his friends join him in doing so when they come round, but he wouldnt wear stuff when out etc. he doesnt see it as inferior i dont think? more that its not what boys are meant to do, he thinks he is meant to like football (he doesnt!) and he is noticing that when girls have bday parties they only invite girls now, these are the same girls that come round for playdates etc and who he is good friends with and always went to their parties before, but now they only invite girls :( he for his bday (next month) wants to go see the new tinkerbell film and is inviting some girls and a boy to go see it. so i dont think he sees 'girly' things as silly and unimportant but he IS learnign that SOME people think its NOT ok for him to play with them and that makes me :(

my dp does stuff around the house and is very hands on with the kids and the housework and i expect my boys to be as well! i am NOT raising my boys to be men that exepct everything to be done for them! the rule in my house is we all make the mess so we ALL help clean it up. my eldest is a bloody good cook as wel and he enjoys it and chooses to do it on his own :)

but yes we do treat the sexes differently, i am making a point of telling my dd how big and strong she is, how clever she is etc, as well as how cute she is (she is blood adorable!) but yes i do have fun buying her nice clothes, after four boys its a novelty, equally tho everything that she wears is hard wearing and comfortable and i dont give a dam if she gets if dirty so she splashes in puddles and crawls int he mud, even in her boden dress! but it washes out, i am not going to stop her having fun for fear of ruining her clothes.

at the weekend my friend brought round some dolls clothes (in a hideous pink baby annabel wardrobe) ds2 (10) and ds3 (7) spent HOURS playing with dolls and dressing them and undressing them and organising all the clothes, we have always had dolls and a pushchair but not laods of clothes and accessories. dd sat and played with some toy dinosaurs which are her new favourite thing, she made them eat the my little ponies that were also brought round with the dolls clothes.

we have never done the girls/boys toys, they have just had a variety and if thye have mentioned thats for girls/boys they are always pulled up on it and i say NO, it seems to have sunk in wiht my elder three but ds4 is 4 and in reception and is very big on the pink for girls, i frequently tell him NO its not just for girls and he wore a pink elmo t-shirt today actually and didnt say anything about that, but he very def has the idea that pink is for girls and its not from me or his siblings, esp not from his pink silk dress wearing big brother!

there is NO need to market toys specifically to girls/boys they shoudl just be marketed to CHILDREN! its insideous and it does nad is affecting our children, even when we think it doesnt or it doesnt matter that much. and yes it is getting worse, i have def noticed the difference, 5 children eldest 13, youngest almost 2 and its far far worse now that it was when ds1 was a baby.

squoosh · 16/11/2012 21:59

5madthings your home sounds like a great place to grow up!