Never picked for school team

[kimlek]

My dd is 9 years old (yr5) and a half decent netball player. She goes to all the practice sessions at lunchtime & without fail at the weekly after school sessions. She loves playing sport. She's not amazingly good but she's certainly ok! The thing is, after putting in the effort she's getting quite disheartened that she's never chosen to play against other schools. Even when they have a B team she's overlooked - and without being rude, some of the girls in the B team are VERY obviously B standard!! If it wasn't bothering her then I wouldn't care but she's going on and on about it. Every Friday she comes home saddened because she hasn't been chosen yet again. Am I being unreasonable?

I'm sorry, but inter school matches are competitive and it is about getting the best team, and training them as a team to work together. This is a valuable lesson for the real world where your children when adults will have to face the reality of not getting every job, or promotion, or project they want because they are not the best applicant.

I was on a very successful netball team at school, until the day we had a new PE teacher join who favoured the 'give everyone a go' policy that you are advocating. We went from always winning the tournaments, to never winning anything. It was depressing and dispiriting for us to see the top players sitting on the benches so that a group of keen but hopeless players could join in. Most of us dropped out. What did that teach us - nothing. If your DD isn't quite up to the standard for that sport encourage her to take up a less popular one where she may shine. It will always be better for her to be on a team on merit, rather than as a token gesture. The rest of the team will resent her presence if they feel she is taking the place of a better player.

That's what the PE lessons are for, to let everyone have a go regardless of talent.
To help them improve their own skills, and to play in games with more skilled or talented players.
If it's an interschool competition, then the best players should be selected, even at a primary level.
Tanith's suggestion will allow the teacher to rethink and maybe watch the Op's daughter at the next few practices with a new eye, perhaps she is being overlooked for one reason or another. Or perhaps she's just not good enough.

Can I give a little note of hope, here? My DD1 plays football. In 6th grade, she was very keen, but never got picked for the team. Same moans about it always being the same ones who got picked. Then an outbreak of D & V meant that half the team couldn't go and play a competition match in Brussels, so DD1 and some of her friends were asked to go at very short notice. They won their game, and after that, she was included in every game. Two years on, they are in Brussels again this weekend, same competition, with her captaining the team.

Wow - who knew the world of primary school sport was so cut throat?

have a ds (Y3) who has just started to play fixtures against other schools. The first match, the teacher left out 4 boys out of 24.

IMO that is outrageous - all it does is put those 4 boys off sport. The A team and the B team won.

This week, ALL the boys played some part (albeit that some spent more time on the bench) - the A team won and the B team lost.

Personally I prefer the second scenario. I'm fine that the A team should always be the best squad, but if there's a B team as well, then that should include all the boys. They are only 7.

You prefer that the b team lost, just as long as everyone had a turn?

Life doesn't work like that though does it?

There are fun, enjoyable clubs and then there is competitive team sports.
In a competitive environment, surely the point is to pick the team that has the best chance of winning?

Competitive sport is not all inclusive, you have to be good enough to be in the winning team.

Agree with Tanith's suggestion. Also are there any local clubs to you she could join. That would give her additional training and an opportunity to play in matches

Personally I prefer the second scenario. I'm fine that the A team should always be the best squad, but if there's a B team as well, then that should include all the boys.

That's a bit silly.

My 6th form had 4 netball squads and 3 hockey squads. Should only the firsts have been allowed to select their players??

I wasn't so good at hockey as netball. Some weeks I was selected for the seconds hockey and some weeks or the thirds (we trained together, firsts trained separately).. Not everyone got selected for the thirds to play, we were still competitive and our to win!

I loved playing sport. Wish I could go back to school!

hatsybatsy- whilst I agree that some kids are put off sport by not being chosen, some kids just just don't like sport, and often are not very good at it either. However I do agree that 4:20 ratio is too imbalanced.

Approximately 5-10% of the population have dyspraxia (a coordination based learning difficulty). The incidence is higher amongst boys. Many people with dyspraxia have difficulty with ball sports (although they may of course be taught ways of adapting their skills), and some do not enjoy ball sports.

I personally hated most sports, especially winter outdoor sports. I am very badly coordinated (never diagnosed with dyspraxia, but had multiple difficulties as a child including slow speech development, poor handwriting, poor hand eye coordination etc) and hated sports like netball as either I was nowhere near the ball, or it would suddenly fly into my face when I could not catch it. I also have very poor circulation and hated anything outdoors as my hands and feet would freeze and become stiff and painful (I now know this is probably Raynaud's phenomenon).

A person with coordination difficulties would have difficulty kicking and catching/throwing a ball, both having the ball meet accurately with their body, and having it bounce off at the desired angle and speed. They also are slower runners as they have difficulty coordinating their movement, so are less likely to get to the ball in the first place. If a team player can not even access the ball, what point is there them being on the team?

If I wanted my team to win a game, I would choose the best players. I would also ensure that there are fun non competitive games for everyone who wishes to take part in.

No, think you're all missing the point. The point being, at primary when skills are still developing, and sports is less specialist, matchplay is an essential part of the training toolkit. Bad luck on the better players if they have to sit on the bench while someone gets matchplay - after all what was it you said - it's about taking a few knocks and learning the hard way. You don't get everything going your way - a lot just get worried someone else will perform better and they'll be superceded. They have to understand the long term aim of building a better team.

Plus there's laziness and complacency in team selection and at primary there's a less well defined distinction between good and bad players. You generally get the amazing whizzers, the absolutely hopeless, and then everyone else in between, much of a muchness, who could probably make a decent fist of being in a team.

Definitely worth saying something op but more along the sucky up lines than in an argumentative way.

The child needs to be pushing, needs to be asking "what do I need to get better at to get in the team" - if the child is keen and really wants it, it makes a big difference.

If the parent is doing the pushing and the asking, the teacher thinks "pushy parent" not "keen child"

Truly competitive animals know no limits. if your dd us good enough she should force her way into the team by getting some leverage over the decision makers. Find out who they are having affairs with, whether they ate embezzling from the half time orange fund - anything that gives you the power. Do that and she'll be in the team soon enough.

I agree byth way but at primary I think there's possibly a role for the parents. But yes, she should be saying give me a go, give me a chance, I won't let you down. Tulisalover also correct.

Agree with bytheway, a teacher has enough to do than to listen to yet another pushy parent asking why her precious DD has not been selected for a competitive event. The teacher will know the child and be in the best position to explain to her what she can do to improve, and can reinforce this at practice.

If her playing does improve as a result of this advice, she may improve to become a better player who may be useful to the team. Or she may just not be good enough, and whilst the coaching will help her playing, she may still be below the required standard.

Agree with tanith.

This "everyone can pass just by turning up" attitude is getting ridiculous. Nobody can be good at everything, but everyone can be good at something.

This is junior school not the olympics.

My favorite football team (for 10 year olds) was one where any child who turned up to all training sessions was picked for at least one game in the season.

The question is whether there is enough provision outside of the competitive teams. My ds never made the school team which I thought was fair enough. But unfortunately there was very little other provision at junior school: very few chances of playing football in PE lessons and the outside clubs also picked on ability. Otherwise, it wouldn't have occurred to me to grumble, but it did seem unfortunate that he got such few chances to develop any little ability he might have had. Much better now he's at secondary and there is better sports provision all round.

As an aside, that trite saying of swings and roundabouts doesn't always hold true in the real world. Ime children who struggle with sports have poor coordination, so they're going to struggle with writing and with crafts. Ds was in the bottom set and was never picked for the school teams. Dd otoh was in top set, was a good dancer and if disability hadn't struck would no doubt have been very good at PE too.

Agree with bytheway, a teacher has enough to do than to listen to yet another pushy parent asking why her precious DD has not been selected for a competitive event. The teacher will know the child and be in the best position to explain to her what she can do to improve, and can reinforce this at practice.

A good teacher would - and I had one in Primary school.

In my secondary school it was all about the favourites - even if in that particular sport they didn't have much experience or were much good even in inter school games.

I'd have though a very polite word might help - in my childhood and for one DC well meaning people assumed we weren't interested in doing some things without consulting - and sometimes they were very wrong.

I suspect how having a word was taken would depend on the OP approach and the personality of the teacher involved.

I teach Year 6 and run the Year 5/6 Netball club.

In PE lessons, we work on skills and drills, building up to short matches, rapidly swapping teams and positions. Everyone playing all the time.

I have 30 girls who turn up regularly to netball club (plus 10 others who attend about 1 in 3 practices).

For matches, we only have 2 courts, and about 45 mins to play (between the arrival of the other school and it getting too dark).

The other school brings an A and B team, I select 2 teams (7 and 1 sub) and they all play 2 matches - AvA, BvB and AvB. The other school bring one member of staff (and a CRB checked parent to supervise the tube journey) and we ref one match/court each.

We could: select a C and D team and just play AvA, BvB, CvC and DvD. However, this would mean that each girl would get a lot less time playing (and more time standing around) and the other school would have to find 2 more adults to travel with them. Half of our regular opponents would struggle to field more than 2 teams anyway.

What we have decided to do is: Carry on running the A/B team league as in previous years, but add in 3 extra C and D matches against the C/D teams from the larger primary schools in the area.

I'd also like to say that my enthusiasm for running this is largely because we have the courts so I don't have to trudge off at 3.30 to take 16 girls on the tube to a match!

Rather than asking why she's never picked for the team, could she make it positive and tell her coach she's really keen to get into the team: what does she need to do to achieve this?
If her coach then sees her following any tips given, it might improve her chances of getting in. OP - Tanith is right, this would work on me!

I think at school there should be some matches that anyone who is trying can regularly play. Whether that's through having as many graduated teams as necessary or an all comers approach (or 1 or 2 selective teams and then an all comers). School sport shouldn't only (or even mainly) be about encouraging the elite. Competitive sport can be fun for those who aren't that talented too!

Your DD may be a little young, but if she's up to it, I would encourage her to ask the coach directly what she can do to get on the team. That gives her the opportunity to get more specific guidance on the areas she should work on and brings her to the teacher's attention in a positive way.

I would add netball is a poor sport for school - it's relatively low skill but success is quite dependent on body type. So tell your DD she shouldn't get too despondent if she doesn't make this team. There are better sports out there.

The question is whether there is enough provision outside of the competitive teams. My ds never made the school team which I thought was fair enough. But unfortunately there was very little other provision at junior school: very few chances of playing football in PE lessons and the outside clubs also picked on ability.

cory your DS was unfortunate that his school did not offer non competitive extra curricular sport.This is clearly not the case for OP's DD: She goes to all the practice sessions at lunchtime & without fail at the weekly after school sessions.

As you can see, this girl is very fortunate that she goes to a school where there is the opportunity for her to take part in both lunchtime and after school clubs, both for enjoyment, and to allow her to build up her skills.

I wonder if any of you have ever been the crap player in a team? It is not a pleasant experience - humiliating and embarrassing.

The team playing in a competition must comprise of the strongest players.

I think quite a lot of the "let's not have prizes for all" team on this thread are not very experienced in team sport situations.

My DD is a netball whizz and the thing I would do in your position is to work on improving her game. You would be amazed at what a small amount of practice can do to improve things for them at this age. Buy a netball post for the garden and spend time with her shooting and passing. The adult can stand still and just throw balls for the child to catch. Tell her to keep moving and to anticipate where the ball is going to land and get in position to catch it.

Find a local club for her to play in as an extra training session a week will make a big difference too. As another poster has said the England netball website has details.

You might also try and find an older keen netball player to do a bit of coaching wither her - I know my DD is always very happy to coach the younger children.

It might turn out not to be her thing, but there is no harm in a concerted effort to see whether she can develop her skills a bit more.

Agree with alcofrolic:

As one of my messages earlier stated, I was always the worst player. In lessons, nobody really cared, it was just a game, but I think some of the more competitive ones would have been pretty annoyed (and so would I) if I had to be part of a competitive team against other schools. Frankly I would have been a waste of space in a netball match: I cannot catch, throw or run and I am 5 foot tall.

I am a science/ maths teacher and tutor, not a PE teacher. But if I were choosing children to represent the school in a inter school maths or science competition I would choose the best students, who would have the greatest chance of getting the questions right and winning the competition. I would not choose a less able student, no matter how enthusiastic they were. But I would invite them to join in in extra-curricular maths and science clubs, where they would have the opportunity to improve their skills and enjoy themselves.

Nicely put frogspoon. At school I excelled in every area - from maths, to english to PE - everything. It always annoyed me intensely that the 'inclusive' minded teachers decided that when we were doing competitive activities, I would be paired with people deeply less able than myself. This reached it's nadir in a cross school quiz competition, where my 'team' decided democratically they would overrule my answer about the cube root of 343. We lost, and I decided from that point I would opt out of any activity. Had I been on my own, I would have destroyed the competition.

I will not go on Only Connect now for that very reason - the thought of having to put up with two duffers flanking me is the only thing stopping me from striking up a wonderful friendship with Vicky Coren.