to think that in 2012 we are both enlightened and educated enough to tell the difference between a homosexual and a paedophile?

[isupposeimabitofafraud]

Hey Mr Cameron?

Care to explain your comments on This Morning?

The only thing I'm getting out of that, is his own prejudices and the whiff of a lack of leadership and yet another cover up.

If Mr Cameron wants to save his own neck and not drown in this sick sea of corruption then taking it seriously and not being dismissive of the claims and accusing people of homophobia, might be a good place to start...

Together with an overall inquiry into why there have been so many institutional failures with regard to child protection and to gather all the conclusions of the 6 million other investigations that have been started post Jimmy Savile, for their findings are scattered to the four corners of the country by the wind.

I'm fuming. I don't want crappy ill thought out warnings about a witchhunt, it wouldn't BE a witchhunt, if the government actually started to take control of the scandal and handle it properly, sensitively and starting taking it seriously rather than acting reactively.

For weeks it was obvious that the Jimmy Savile revelations were going to spread and given what the government do know, and the fact they have both the intelligence and foresight to be able to see the direction it was going to head and act accordingly. Instead they have sat on their hands and hoped it would all die down, go away and we'd all forget about it. Well I'm not forgetting about it. I want PROPER answers and an institutional change of attitude and action. Not more crap.

Isn't this exactly how we got into this mess in the first place, by officials dismissing those who did report or trying to discredit them?

Haven't they learnt ANYTHING yet?

/rant.

[MulledWineOnTheBusLady]

arf!

[MulledWineOnTheBusLady]

I think he'd drawn the same conclusion I had from all the coverage, Fanjo, and missed a step in his explanation, as Thumper said. It certainly wasn't very well-handled.

But basically, if he is sinister for "bringing homosexuality into it" then so am I, because the "here is a list of poofs we think are paedos" line of enquiry has been screamingly obvious to me from the coverage.

[DuelingFanjo]

"Dear Prime Minister

here is a list of poofs. Can you please have them all locked up."


really?! You actually think that is what was going through Philip Schofield's mind? It was not Philip Schofield who mentioned homosexuality, You are putting a lot of words into his mouth there. My understanding was that it was DC who raised the issue of homosexuality.

And anyway - them being accused of having sex with children is about paedophilia not being gay.

[DuelingFanjo]

"the conclusion thaqt most people will draw when trying to think of who might have been invloved is to focus on those whe were rumoured to be gay."

I think you are doing 'most people' a disservice. Is this how you think? Just because you think like this doesn't mean it's what most people think.

This is about sex with children, not about homosexuality.

[DuelingFanjo]

it's clear now that DC has done a very fine job of moving attention away from paedophilio and onto 'the gays' though. Even if it wasn't planned that is what has happend.

[DontmindifIdo]

Dueling - I think DC's statement must mean that the list was a list of people he knew to be gay.

[MulledWineOnTheBusLady]

Yes, of course that's what he's done.

[DuelingFanjo]

"here is a list of poofs we think are paedos"

it is incidental that some people may believe the people on the list are gay. Them being gay is neither here not there, if they are paedophiles then their sexuality doesn't matter. Someone else put it better than I earlier...

"Being gay means you are sexually attracted to adults of the same gender as you are. Being a paedophile means you are sexually attracted to children. If you are a man who is sexually attracted to boys, you are not a "gay paedophile" - you are a paedophile. "

[gordyslovesheep]

them being accused of having sex with children is about paedophilia not being gay NOT if the main reason they have been singled out is because they are gay

remember this is based on internet gossip not actual evidence

[MulledWineOnTheBusLady]

Oh FFS. I KNOW them being gay is neither here nor there.

[DuelingFanjo]

"Dueling - I think DC's statement must mean that the list was a list of people he knew to be gay. "

so he thought he would focus on their sexuality? why?

I think you are all mad for concentrating so much on them being gay or straight. honestly I do.
This is about child abuse.
But as usual the focus is now completely off the victims, completely off the possibility of a cover-up.

sigh.

[thumper1806]

"the conclusion thaqt most people will draw when trying to think of who might have been invloved is to focus on those whe were rumoured to be gay."

I think you are doing 'most people' a disservice. Is this how you think? Just because you think like this doesn't mean it's what most people think.

This is about sex with children, not about homosexuality.

Wow. I had even specifically mentioned the boys home, but here goes.

This is about sex with male children perpetrated by men, so for the bloggers (not me you might care to note) the link has been made that it must be homosexuals who have carried out these acts, and have (on the internet) identified these individuals, I might add- wrongly.

I have even posted an example of the thought train of the people who have made the links. I think this is why D-Cam has jumped in with both feet, by having a few more steps of the exchange in his head, and therefor answering the question in such a manner.

[MrsjREwing]

Do you people think those from the Wales investigation all kept quiet about names, that all jounos kept quiet and those they told kept quiet and not one of them posted the names of the peado's on the internet?

[thumper1806]

The "most people" bit should have said "bloggers who are determined to name individuals with little more than old rumours and suggestions as evidence".

[Wishfulmakeupping]

Cameron handled it well seeing as Schofield was being very irresponsible to do that live on air

[DuelingFanjo]

"NOT if the main reason they have been singled out is because they are gay"

I am under the impression that the main reason many of them have been singled out is because they abused children. Unless you are implying that the many accusations made on national radio recently by people who were in the homes are made up? Because you think there are abuse victims going around plucking names out of a gay hat just for laughs?

yeah - that'd be it, right?

I agree... a list from the internet is a bad idea but if names have been repeatedly mentioned by vivtims and those names were mentioned and covered up in a previous enuiry then it's really important that we believe the victims and we allow the claims to be properly investigated rather than assuming that they have just jumped on a bandwagon of gay-bashing.

if politicians, gay or straight, have been accused by victims of sexual abuse against children then they need to be investigated and those victims need to be heard.

[LineRunner]

He didn't handle it well to bring anyone's being gay into it. It is irrelevant.

[thumper1806]

"I am under the impression that the main reason many of them have been singled out is because they abused children"

Well, it's nice to know that you are in possession of all of the facts

[DuelingFanjo]

"And I think you're either a bit thick or refusing to read our posts, Fanjo"

oh wow. Way to go with the rational argument
Thanks for sharing that.

[cavell]

Peter Tatchell, Director of the Peter Tatchell Foundation, writes:

"According to the BBC, Downing Street officials later explained that Mr Cameron's fears about a homophobic "witch-hunt" were prompted by his objection to online gossip that associated homosexuality with paedophilia and that made unproven claims of paedophilia against well known gay public figures, including Conservative politicians.

A senior aide to the prime minister said innocent people who were not connected to the current child abuse investigations were being traduced by an online witch-hunt. It is wrong to smear gay people with unfounded allegations, said a Downing Street spokesperson.

The list of names of alleged paedophiles handed by Schofield to Cameron during this morning?s interview apparently included prominent past and present gay Tory MPs, but with no actual evidence, let alone proof, of their guilt.

In these circumstances, perhaps the Prime Minister?s words were understandable and reasonable. He was reacting to unsubstantiated internet allegations and what looks like a scatter-gun denunciation of gay top Tories.

Viewers who were unaware of this full context may, however, have interpreted Cameron?s words and intentions very differently. His mention of gay people and an anti-gay witch-hunt was unexpected and unprompted. Schofield had not mentioned any gay involvement.

This led many members of the public to believe the Prime Minister was linking homosexuality with paedophilia - which is probably not what he intended to suggest."

[MulledWineOnTheBusLady]

I am generally a fan of rational argument, Fanjo, but since you're not using any I decided I'd push the boat out this time.

[LineRunner]

To summarise:

Those on the list have been singled out because they are alleged to have abused children.

David Cameron's reference to anyone's being gay was irrelevant.

[DuelingFanjo]

"Do you people think those from the Wales investigation all kept quiet about names, that all jounos kept quiet and those they told kept quiet and not one of them posted the names of the peado's on the internet? "

can I conclude from this that you think all the victims were lying?

you know that the children's home and those in it were taking part in regular abuse of children don't you?

[DuelingFanjo]

"Those on the list have been singled out because they are alleged to have abused children.

David Cameron's reference to anyone's being gay was irrelevant"

yes. This is a good summary.

I think anyone who is going on about it being unfair to those on the list who are supposed to be gay are just guilty themselves of believing the gay rumours. For all these people know they are all straight anyway. Not that it matters either way to anyone but themselves.