To ask what are morals?

[InNeedOfBrandy]

I don't get morals, say you feel stealing is wrong and immoral do you feel stealing to feed your hungry child is immoral to?

I really don't understand what morals are, I wouldn't say for example sleep with a married man because I wouldn't want to be involved over a break up of a marriage, but I don't condone anyone else who does. Am I supposed to be outraged because I wouldn't do it.

Inspired by another thread, I don't see spending money on your children at christmas or buying them designer clothes and trainers immoral. I don't see what morals are involved there.

I haven't had a religious upbringing do install how the church want you to behave, are morals just the 10 commandments for example?

Laymans terms please spell it out to me lovely MNetters

TIA

I think the rules and morals is a great POV it is wrong to steal but it is how you feel about stealing in normal circumstances is how you would explain morals

I hope that made sense cos i am starting to confuse myself now

I'd quite like to be an anarchist, feel like your part of a revolution but then they have morals very left wing morals but they know in their heads whats right and wrong to them.

Exactly they live my their own morals of what is right and wrong

Oh I finally get it puddle, So you spend £30 on footlocker trainers for a 2yr old but feed them beans on toast for a week to pay for it, and thats immoral?

Would it be different if they were Clarks trainers and not Nike?

Yes but what about stealing baked beans to feed your puppy, is that immoral?

Kantian universalism is a good basis for morals. If everyone did what I do, what would the outcome be? So if everyone stole to feed their child, the result would be a world in which only the children of the strong and fast had food.

That's why there's a conflict. What is best for the individual is actually the welfare of all. If not you are helping to make a world in which you yourself and your dcs cannot live.

Or selling trainers to buy a child?

To me, immoral is doing something wrong/illegal, for no good reason and not feeling guilty about it.

Eg, stealing something you could easily pay for, just because you wanted to.

Or cheating on your partner, just because the opportunity is there and they will never know.

I think your issue is that you're assuming that morals are objective, that they're fixed and never change i.e. stealing is wrong, killing is wrong etc. I believe, however, that most people would agree that morals are subjective.

So using your example, stealing is wrong but in a situation where your children are starving and you need to feed them, stealing would be the right, moral, thing to do.

Moral objectivism vs moral relativism has been debated for thousands of years, so you probably won't get a consensus on here.

I was assuming they were objective, you have put it very well to me freaky thankyou.

Now why do we have morals in the first place?

Good question Brandy. I think it's morally wrong to buy stuff like that if you can't afford it because it's deliberately putting yourself into debt for something so trivial - unless you know you have the means to ultimately repay that debt. And if it means that as a result you can't afford to pay other bills or feed your kids - then effectively that's stealing. And yes - also incredibly stupid!

OK, on a sliding scale it's not up there with murder, but like I say, I think we all have individual moral boundaries that vary for all sorts of reasons.

The people I find terrifying are the ones with no moral boundaries whatsoever, I'm not sure if that's a sociopath, or amoral, or both -sorry, please can someone clever explain the differences!?!

Brilliant thread BTW!

Now why do we have morals in the first place?

This is another thing that's widely debated, some people would argue (wrongly ) that they come from a deity/deities. I believe that they come from the society and environment you live in, going further back they evolved over time as a way for humans to survive whilst living in social groups.

A quick summary of the evolution of morality.

Morals are what keep you able to look yourself in the eye and they are different for everyone.

Most people on this thread have agreed that stealing is morally wrong, but I think we are all guilty of using the work phone or mail every now and then, and lots of people would never steal from a shop, but happily buy knocked-off or fake goods. There are many more forms of stealing, than just taking an item from a house, shop or person. Each of us has our own moral-rules.

I also believe, very strongly, that I am not the keeper of anyone else's morals, so if a married person wants to sleep around, that is between them, their partner and their own conscience.

We had to learn about the difference of morals values and ethics when I trained as a nurse

Morals - codes of conduct

Values - rules by which we make decisions on right or wrong, good or bad. Beliefs of a person or social group

Ethics- Actions and decisions . Usually defined by society though not by the individual

Well, one reason a person has morals is to be able to live in a society. If you live in a way which is way outside of the norm and damaging to other members of society, then this is a problem. For e.g., if you see nothing wrong with beating up puppies, but as a society it is thought to be morally, when you beat up a puppy you are acting outside the norms of your society.

Society then sometimes turns morals into laws which are more objective (to an extent) and sometimes there's a gap between a society's morals and their laws (see endless debates on whether or not tax avoidance is moral - it's legal, but is it moral).

So society deems stealing as morally wrong but a persons values my determin if it is or isn't to them

"So society deems stealing as morally wrong but a persons values my determin if it is or isn't to them"

Exactly, and you might have sub-societies who disagree with the wider society's laws, and therefore don't live by them. For e.g. the mafia. Society and the law says (for e.g.) that killing someone over a business disagreement is wrong, but in the mafia (well, in The Godfather) it's just seen as a part of their business practices.

Societies developed with 'rules' so that people weren't forever clubbing each other to death over food/territory etc. Human beings are innately co-operative and competitive, so the social rules are a way of trying to balance these two aspects.

And morality is subjective: if it wasn't for people who had a different view of right and wrong, quite a lot of social progress simply wouldn't have happened (it used to be thought 'immoral' for a woman to learn to read, for example).

Now why do we have morals in the first place?

because most people have a little voice in them saying no dont do that please stop doing that, tis you concience (sp) everybody is different but i do think society dictates what is right and wrong or we would all be running around like headless chicken not doing what to do, Morals can be moved and adjusted though it isn't set in stone or black and white,

So how do you know what your morals are unless you have been through or asked about every situation that could happen?

Freaky that was a interesting read, esp the disgust paragraph.

Worldgonecrazy I also don't understand the look yourself in the eye/mirror comment that a lot of people say, is it feeling guilty about something? I only feel guilty over one thing Iv'e done in my life but I wouldn't call that a moral view.

Ah mrsJ I do have that all through my teenage years I used to say fuck it to that voice

SGB Even now that is used, eg it's immoral for a woman to show her hair in some cultures or body shape. It's more immoral for a woman to have an affair (fine for a man) it's immoral for a woman to have an opinion in Iraq it has only been recent that woman were allowed access to education because of morals.

MORALS? In our society mum and dad teach morals. They do so taking note of what is legal or illegal. Then teachers step in at age 4 or 5 and they teach a version of right and wrong. Which also seems to be based on legality and custom.

When we are adults, we may start thinking out for ourselves what we think of what we have been taught.

I take the point about stealing to feed starving children

of course if we bring in "big business." They seem to have their own moral code. Which can be a bit dodgy.