To be proud of DS over this (warning, naughty parent/Operation CHristmas CHild-related)

[SolidGoldYESBROKEMYSPACEBAR]

Ds is 8 and his school will persist in the poxy Samaritans' Purse appeal though I have written and complained at least twice (if you don't already know, it's a racist rightwing evangelical organisation, culturally insensitive, despised by most aid charities and a waste of resources.). I have never contributed to it and never will, and have explained to DS that it's a bad organisation run by bad people, and that good people (like those at his school) don't always understand that sometimes bad people pretend to be good...

Anyway, today, according to DS, one of the teachers asked the DC to guess how many shoeboxes they were going to get this year/how many they hoped for. DS raised his hand and said...... 'ZERO'

That's m'boooy!

Madhairday-this link talks a lot about the type of evangelising OCC do and show children being given leaflets, then their shoeboxes.
sites.google.com/site/occalert/Home

I do agree with the OP by the way. I think her child was rude. It is rude to criticise or berate others for the charity work they have chosen to support. Her son was cheeky and answered back, there's nothing funny about that.

Katie comes across as a prick, quite frankly.

If people want to donate shoeboxes that's fine. They do need to know about the charity though and its founder but after all that, they still want to support it then fine.

And I'm not against people spreading their faith either. I neither shut the door on JHs or Mormons and have no issues with listening to someone who is enthusiastic about their religion. But certainly giving should be completely without conditions, as Jesus taught.

My kids' school does the shoe boxes and also offers the alternative of donations for local homeless hostel because parents asked for an alternative non faith charity.

Why not encourage the school to do this rather than applauding your child's cheek-I would have raised an eyebrow at that response in the classroom.

I've had enough of self righteous kids parroting parents views. In the past week I've had a 7 yr old child lecture me on the evils of watching X Factor and a 10 year old tell me trick or treating is 'immoral'. I think teaching kids to be polite means teaching them to not voice their judgements on other's behaviour until they're at home where they can't be heard: saying zero was mean imho.

I'm an atheist but can't get that worked up about this sp thing tbh.

It isn't simple, it is incredibly complicated.

This is making yourself and your child feel good about themselves. Not a bad thing to foster a sense of community and selflessness. But when I give a present I want to know who it is going to, whether they will like it, whether it is suitable. Don't you? So why change the rules when it comes to charity?

Giving to development and humanitarian charities in itself is horrendously problematic, as the ex director of Save the Children, who I work with himself says. What you need to look for is low impact projects that empower without fuelling corruption, environmental degradation, being culturally insensitive or attacking local industries.

Although I might come across as very PC kill joy don't kid yourself that this scheme is anything but a total waste of time. Neither of us is right, nor necessarily are our liberal, historically Christian ideas and belief system better than anyone else's.

Interesting quotes, Rhubarb, he does indeed sound deeply unpleasant.

Trockodile, I know about what's alleged with OCC but have heard many stories of how it is done which is contrary to what is often said - like the MNer further up the thread from Kazakhstan, and my friend who worked with them one year. I guess it's not very clear cut, and some places do it differently with different agendas. For this alone I suppose it is even less transparent. I haven't done the shoeboxes this year for OCC, last year I thought about it a lot and felt deeply unsure about it. There are plenty of other charities who do it clearly. I personally agree with telling the gospel, but there are ways and means, and part of telling the gospel is in how you act and how you behave towards people. Calling Islam evil for eg is most definitely not in the spirit of the gospel and just makes me cross :(

For information, plenty of other charities do those shoe box things so you can support the cause without supporting Samaritans Purse -
www.blythswood.org/shoebox/
www.rotaryshoebox.org/

LtEve - well done. So for all those who support Samaritan's Purse, how do you feel having Katie4U representing that organisation? Can you imagine someone from Oxfam or the Red Cross saying such things?

I think Katie may well have just shot herself in the foot.

And your proof that she represents that organisation is?

No proof hiddenhome, I said above I deduce

The fact that she ONLY joined MN in 2009 and has ONLY posted on OCC threads since (and 5 of her 6 posts are identical C&P jobs) and she ONLY makes one post before leaving, to ONLY return when another OCC thread starts, makes me believe I am correct.

I would be very surprised if I was wrong, especially as large organisations with lots of money employ internet bot things (cant remember the bloody name) that seek out mentions of their organisation throughout the day - al la OccadoAnnie who is on here all the time

HTH

I didn't say officially hiddenhome did I? She represents it in an unofficial capacity by rising to its defence on Mumsnet in every single one of her 6 posts. One might say that she only joined Mumsnet to defend Samaritan's Purse. Precisely on Friday 27th November 2009 when she resurrected every thread she could find on OCC and posted the very same post on each.

Only this post does she show her true colours.

I wonder what her motive for doing that may be if not to promote the charity?

xposts!

Yes LtEve, there are pieces of software that continually scour the internet for mention of certain keywords.

Well, it does seem that SP is not a particularly worthy organisation and circumstantial evidence does seem to point to Katie having some sort of vested interest, though whether one can jump to the conclusion that she represents them is doubtful.

All that having been said, I still don't believe that being, "proud" of one's child for parroting one's own beliefs in quite such a rude way is particularly laudable.

I've always wondered Eve - why did you choose that name for your username?

I have, actually, had a gentle word with DS about not being rude to other people even when he is right and they are wrong (something I sometimes have to talk to him about anyway; possible Aspergers etc). I'm proud of him in that he understood my explanation and wasn't afraid to stand up for what he thought.

ANd I will carry on condemning OCC as a scam and a waste of people's good intentions.

I am not religious but have supported this charity in the past and I like the idea - I once read (I believe on this site years ago) that not all the recipiants were actually children in need of these boxes however it's obvious Ilovegeorgecloony has had personal experience here and seen the joy that these boxes have brought some children - of course the charity are pushing their beliefs but that's what every organisation does - I shouldn't think it (the literature) really has that much effect on the childrens' lives but the gifts do. Provided they reach children who otherwise don't have much I think it's a nice idea. Every religion is corrupt in some way and most charities will have problems with "hands in the till" or however you want to phrase it - just look at the millions we give away in foreign aid which is allegedly used to buy arms etc etc. As for being offensive - shouldn't all children be allowed to learn about other cultures and religions or is it only children in this country who are allowed to be educated about other religions?????? I am not a christian but am happy for my children to learn about christians/muslims/Hindus etc etc and I let them celebrate Christmas and learn about Jesus and the nativity - am sure that 99% of mn's also celebrate Christmas and go to their childrens' nativity plays yet think it's ok to slag off christians and their charity organisations.

mummyonvalium "If you truly believe that atheists are doing a good job in standing in where religious people left off please tell me - I am with Larry in that I can't see it anywhere!" Really?

Maybe us irreligious types should advertise more. I have spent the last 25 years working with people who are homeless; addicted; disabled; poor. I have collected for charities, given to charities and worked for charities. I have worked in shelters over Christmas several times and on the years I haven't been working I have gone into shelters with cakes, mince pies and a smile. I also do it in March, June and October because Christmas is the one time homeless people actually get thought of by others.

I'm not saying that Christians don't do their bit. I have worked alongside very wonderful Christians, some of whom are dear friends and colleagues. I do my bit too, I just don't force people to sit through a lecture on evolution and atheism first. I also don't hand out copies of The Origin of Species.

sorry meant that to be 99% of mn's celebrate Christmas and go to their childrens' nativity plays atc school - not 99% of mn's slag off christians and their organisations - and I repeat NOT a christian myself.

Hello Joe

Lt Eve Dallas is a character in the JD Robb 'In Death' series of books. I've only had 3 major names on MN since I joined - I NC to this one when I was going through a really crappy time in my life and escaping into the books. Dallas was everything I wasn't at the time - feisty, brave, strong...and loved. It made me feel better, and every day I hoped to become more like her

SGB, FWIW I don't see what your DS said was especially rude - blunt maybe, but sometimes being blunt is what is needed.

At the end of the day there are many may charities out there who ALL need support. I choose to support a particular one due to my own interested career. We all have our own opinions about the different charities but its really not or anyone to dissuade someone from supporting a charity because of your own personal beliefs. By all means, bypass the charity if you disagree with their ethos but don't rally round and recruit sheep to follow you. Just pick another charity to support and leave others to make their own choice.
Can't stand this 'don't support them cos I think they're shit' attitude.

He would have stood up for what he thought a whole lot better by actually articulating some of what you've said above, Solid, instead of making a dismissive smart mouth comment that showed scorn for the charity with no explanation as to why.

If he understood your explanation as well as you thought, why couldn't he have done this?

I disagree Kafri. Charities need cynical eyes on them. Here we have this scandal. The charity was spending more on fundraising than research. Big news here. Unless people know what the charities are doing, how do they know whether they want to give to them. If I want to fight cancer, I would want to convince others to give to a charity that works to cure cancer more than fund itself.

I'm so glad I asked! I have wondered for ages, because I had the name mixed up with (a quick google reveals) Lynndie England, the female US marine who put the prisoner in Abu Ghraib on a dog lead. Always thought it was an odd choice of name......

Ps I have also been on here ages, under three names I think. So no one "knows" me but actually my membership number is lower than cod's.

What a rude comment from your child. I'm surprised you're proud.

Oh Dear God what a mistake! Now that WOULD be a terrible name . You must have thought I was a serious freak (bloody hell, and the Forces connection!)