Re Nursery. And WWYD

[catgirl1976]

DS is 11.5 months. He goes to nursery 2 days a week and has done since he was 4 months old.

He has always fought sleep. Until 9 months he was demand fed, we co-slept and he went to bed when we did. At 9 months we moved him to his own cot, then his own room and gradually, through a lot of hard work got him into a routine.

His routine is now

Wakes between 5:30 and 6:30
Porridge and bottle
Snack around 9am (usually crumpets or toast and another bottle)
Nap around 9:30am, for 1.5 - 2 hours
Lunch about 12:30 / 1pm
Nap around 3pm for about an hour
Bottle at 4pm
Dinner at 6:30
Bath at 7ish till about 7:30
Bottle and wind down, story etc
Bed at 8pm

We have worked hard to get him in to this routine.

Nursery just seem to be unable to follow anything like it.

We had an issue with them not giving him his 4pm bottle and he was a wreck when we got him home. This has been resolved.

But we have had an on-going issue with his naps. He gets his morning one, but it is much later - anywhere between 10am and 11:30am. He never seems to sleep for more than 50 minutes, sometimes as little as 20 mins. He often doesn't get his afternoon nap, or if he does it's 20 / 30 minutes again.

We have raised this and they promise to sort it.

Today I pick him up and they say "oh he didn't sleep well today. he had his morning nap, but he was wide awake this afternoon so he didn't get his afternoon one".

When I look at his diary he has had from 10:45 to 11:35.

All day. 50 minutes. He isn't one yet.

He was screaming during dinner as he was too tired to eat but I could tell he was hungry. He then fell asleep in my arms at 6:55 and is now sparked out. I expect he will wake in the night hungry as he couldn't eat much and no doubt I will be up at 4:30 / 5am.

It's a great nursery in all other respects, but AIBU to think this is nowhere near enough sleep for an 11.5 month old.

What do I do? If I move him it's upheaval for him and who is to say it will be any better elsewhere. I keep raising it but they say "Oh he just wouldn't go down"

He does fight sleep, but we persereve. It often takes 30 mins to get him off and can take more but he needs sleep, even if he doesn't want to.

I suppose they just don't have the staff to spend 30 mins getting him down, but he is a mess on 50 minutes out of 13 hours.

I just don't know what to do.

We had an issue

[teaparties]

A friend had the same problem - she talked it through with her DS' keyworker (how although he was fine at nursery he was a mess when he got home/ they weren't able to enjoy any time together because he was falling asleep in his dinner/ night time sleep was affected) and said that although she was really pleased with how he was settling in at nursery she was really worrying about his sleep.
They've since worked to adapt his home routine so it fits in with nursery (ie. he has 2 short naps am rather than one long and pm is 1.5 rather than 2) I think sometimes it is worth flagging up just how much the baby is being affected, but doesn't have to be made into a massive deal just something to be worked on together.

[katiecubs]

YANU sorry.

It's not unusual that babies don't sleep as well at nursery - there is too much going on and other babies/ noises around to wake them up.

I would drop him down to one nap per day (pretty common around 1 yrs old anyway and from the sounds of it he is not tired enough for 2 anyway - babbling rolling for 30 mins etc) and put him to bed earlier! 8 is way too late is he gets up from 5.30.

[trinitybleu]

My DD never slept as well at Nursery but they did spend time getting her to sleep. We chose a Nursery with 5 places in the Baby Room and so they could dedicate the time. At that age, she was on one sleep of about 1.5 hours, after lunch, and would take at least 45 mins of rocking/ walking in buggy before she dropped off. If Nursery can't do that (having spoken to the Manager), I'd find somewhere that did.

FYI - by the time she was 2, she hardly napped at all but if she needed it one of the staff would sit beside her sleep mat and stroke her face / hair until she dropped off. I didn't!

[PurpleCrazyHorse]

We use a CM and the benefit is that she only has one little baby at a time, so although there's other kids there, maybe a toddler or two with our CM during the day, she was able to focus on DD a bit more for nap times. Plus she took DD out in the buggy for school pickups etc, so DD slept in the buggy too. DD would never just fall asleep in a cot, even at home until she was 2yo, so our CM was able to rock her gently (in her arms or in the buggy), or time a walk to the park (with DD in the buggy) at just the right time.

The environment was a bit quieter too as she does do a post-lunch quiet time so it encourages DD to sleep (or now, to just chill a bit). Clearly if there's just a couple of other children + DD, it's going to be quieter than a big nursery.

I would however, expect a nursery to try to get your DS to sleep but they clearly aren't going to be able to dedicate 30mins just to him, as there's bound to be other children who also need a hand too. I think you probably need to tweak your evening post nursery and possibly (as others have suggested) try a longer afternoon nap on nursery days.

[saintlyjimjams]

I had two babies who never really slept in the day (just short cat naps). It was an utter PITA, but there you go, that's the way they were. One of them would sleep in the afternoon if I shoved him on my back and staggered around with him but you can't really expect a nursery to do that.

Whatever a nursery's ethos, the reality is still that they have a whole group of children and so they can't spend 30 mins getting a child off to sleep (and what do you do exactly to force someone to sleep - carrying ds3 worked but you can't expect a nursery to do that).

When mine went to nursery I just accepted they might not sleep tbh, and put them in bed earlier.

[Athrawes]

I had the same with mine. In the end I moved him to an in-home childminder who only has 2 under 2's at a time (four in total) to deal with and so had the time to cuddle, settle, be firm but not neglectful. It wasn't a criticism of the nursery, just didn't suit my child and I was stressed knowing that he wasn't happy because he was unroutined and tired. They did try, but it didn't work out. He moved to a childminder at 11 months old, and is now nearly 2 and a half. He is with her 42 hrs week and and still has 1.5 hrs nap at lunchtime. If he doesn't nap he will at least have quiet time in his cot at her house, where he sits and chats to himself and reads his books. Personally I think childminders, when they are good, are marvelous because they have time to respond to individuals.

[MidniteScribbler]

What is this "routine" that you all speak of???

[moogstera1]

Childminders are normally only allowed one baby under the age of 12 months, and only 3 in total under 5 years so would find it much easier to keep your lo in their routine.
Even when out and about at playgroups etc. my baby mindees always get a good sleep as they will sleep in the pram in a quiet corner if needs be; they're not in a noisy room full of babies all the time!

[moogstera1]

meant to add, if you don't really know about CM's give me a pm and I'll run you through it ( we're basically more like nannies but with the advantage of having all the mess in our own homes!)

[ChippingInLovesAutumn]

Catgirl - I love your ability to look at yourself and go 'WTF was I thinking and who let me do this??' You will be just fine!!

[catgirl1976]

I look at myself like that all the time

I am a bit useless to be fair! :)