Re Nursery. And WWYD

[catgirl1976]

DS is 11.5 months. He goes to nursery 2 days a week and has done since he was 4 months old.

He has always fought sleep. Until 9 months he was demand fed, we co-slept and he went to bed when we did. At 9 months we moved him to his own cot, then his own room and gradually, through a lot of hard work got him into a routine.

His routine is now

Wakes between 5:30 and 6:30
Porridge and bottle
Snack around 9am (usually crumpets or toast and another bottle)
Nap around 9:30am, for 1.5 - 2 hours
Lunch about 12:30 / 1pm
Nap around 3pm for about an hour
Bottle at 4pm
Dinner at 6:30
Bath at 7ish till about 7:30
Bottle and wind down, story etc
Bed at 8pm

We have worked hard to get him in to this routine.

Nursery just seem to be unable to follow anything like it.

We had an issue with them not giving him his 4pm bottle and he was a wreck when we got him home. This has been resolved.

But we have had an on-going issue with his naps. He gets his morning one, but it is much later - anywhere between 10am and 11:30am. He never seems to sleep for more than 50 minutes, sometimes as little as 20 mins. He often doesn't get his afternoon nap, or if he does it's 20 / 30 minutes again.

We have raised this and they promise to sort it.

Today I pick him up and they say "oh he didn't sleep well today. he had his morning nap, but he was wide awake this afternoon so he didn't get his afternoon one".

When I look at his diary he has had from 10:45 to 11:35.

All day. 50 minutes. He isn't one yet.

He was screaming during dinner as he was too tired to eat but I could tell he was hungry. He then fell asleep in my arms at 6:55 and is now sparked out. I expect he will wake in the night hungry as he couldn't eat much and no doubt I will be up at 4:30 / 5am.

It's a great nursery in all other respects, but AIBU to think this is nowhere near enough sleep for an 11.5 month old.

What do I do? If I move him it's upheaval for him and who is to say it will be any better elsewhere. I keep raising it but they say "Oh he just wouldn't go down"

He does fight sleep, but we persereve. It often takes 30 mins to get him off and can take more but he needs sleep, even if he doesn't want to.

I suppose they just don't have the staff to spend 30 mins getting him down, but he is a mess on 50 minutes out of 13 hours.

I just don't know what to do.

We had an issue

[Teethkissing]

I don't think it is too little sleep. My dd2 dropped all day time maps from around that age. Not every dat but 5 our of 7. I don't mean to say, your baby doesn't need to/shouldny nap. But please don't fret, if baby is otherwise happy

Nursery routine is usually different to home

[catgirl1976]

I knew there was something Hecate

Chloroform would explain it! :)

[galwaygirl]

Haven't read all the other replies but if I were you I would try to get him on the nursery routine - maybe increasing the days for a few weeks.
I have a 17 month old who was a nightmare to get into a routine but once she started going to nursery 4 days a week she fell into their routine.
I think it's better for them to all sleep at the same time - everyone is winding down to the nap and there's nothing going on to distract them. DD sleeps more on her days at home but overall sticks to the nursery routine and sleeps a lot better at night now.
If your DS is in a totally different routine to the others maybe they're all having lots of fun doing something just as it gets to his nap time.

[StrawWars]

Fwiw, we shifted our home routine to fit the nursery routine, e.g. lunch at 11.30, tea at 4.30 etc.

[UserNameAngst]

I had a similar situation with DS1. As others have said, it does resolve in time, not that this helps you now! As you have potential flexibility with child care could you consider mornings? My DS did 8 til 1 iirc at that age, so at least he could nap in the car - messes up any routine but my view was at least he would have some daytime sleep.

At this age he was at a cm and it was tough going for us all. Things improved a lot after he moved to nursery at 14 mo and he quickly adjusted to the after lunch nap. From about 18 mo to 2,5 he would merrily lie down in their sleep room for a long nap but wouldn't dream of simply lying down and going to sleep at home!

I was so pleased when he stopped napping.

[JugsMcGee]

I wouldn't try to push him for one nap, he clearly isn't ready - the fact that they're putting him down later and he's waking up after 50 mins shows he's overtired. If he's not crying, can't you just leave him to it? Will he go to sleep eventually? Maybe work on that instead of giving him attention for playing around.

I think you should just put him to bed earlier on nursery days. My DS is nearly 2 and still needs a good 2hrs pm nap or he gets overtired and wakes at night and wakes early. However he rarely gets this at nursery, there's too much going on! And that's fine, he just has a couple of early nights to make up for it.

[catgirl1976]

Getting him into the nursery routine sounds sensible. And really bloody obvious now

Thank you............my brain used to work. I'm sure it did :(

[AlphabetiSpaghetti]

I can understand your frustration but I think you do need to be a bit more chilled out about it. My DS started nursery at 11 month full time, and before he started I tried to get him into their routine as closely as I could. This was mainly about moving his lunch and snacks a bit and trying to get his naps during the morning and afternoon 'free time'. That helped a lot.

My DS also struggled with naps - he would only sleep on us, in the car or pushchair - something I knew would be tricky at nursery. But, and I have no idea how they do it, he now has his naps in his cot or apparently takes himself off to the cushioned area and goes to sleep by himself. He never does this at home!! Admittedly his naps are shorter and sometimes he misses one as he too is wide awake and having too much fun. But heigh ho. We just put him to bed a bit earlier.

I'm sure your son is really enjoying nursery. He's getting older all the time so my advice is try and relax, be flexible and try to stick to their routine during 'home' days too.

[SamSmalaidh]

Babies aren't going to get anything out of nursery/being around other children until they are around 2-2.5.

Nursery staff aren't going to put a wide-awake child in a cot to disturb any sleepers for 30 minutes before he sleeps.

If it takes that long for him to get to sleep, then you are putting him down at the wrong time - either he is not tired enough, or is so over-tired he can't drift off.

[catgirl1976]

If we leave him he goes from burbling and messing about to crying

We did leave him to cry one night when we were just both exhausted and beyond doing anything more and he did go to sleep after a while but I don't like the idea of CIO (for us - not judging anyone else who does it)

[LittleMilla]

See it as an opportunity. We also had some sleeping ishoos when DS started nursery, but it actually turned out well in the end as they got him on to just one nap a day...something I'd struggled with. Solved his napping problems.

So i'd suggest that rather than trying to get them to adjust to YOUR routine, you adjust to THEIR routine.

My DS also does two days a week and on his home days I try and give him lunch early, but if we're not at home then he'll have a snack then lunch when he wakes up. We do have some days where he has a short nap for whatever reason, but i'll just put him to bed a bit earlier.

Oh, and our nursery gives them tea about 3/4 and so DS often doesn't want much fr supper. So don't be too disheartened.

YANBU as I know how it feels. Try and catch the room leader (or whoever) to chat through the fact he needs at least A nap before going for the top brass. Ifit carries on I'd consider calling the office and speaking to them over the phone vs booking an appt as it seems quite full-blown.

[catgirl1976]

SamSmalaidh - he really does seem to enjoy being with other babies. He has a "friend" who he chases around with and he seems really fascinated by other babies - he laughs when he sees them etc and he doesn't get that at home.

He really does seem to enjoy having some other baby company

[EscapeInTheCity]

Agree re sleeping on a mat. From 18 months. both my dcs did that. They just had one nap just after lunch. It would be better for him to be used to that otherwise he won't have any sleep at all during the day.

Personally, I would try and work something out where I know he is going to get the sleep he needs, even it means changing again my routine at home. My experience with nursery is that they are very good at putting all the dcs down at the same time and for all the babies to sleep at the same time. It's working because they have a strong routine that everyone is following.

However, I also have had a child who never slept well at nursery (the slightest noise would wake him up, same problem at home). So might want to check if there isn't something like this happening too. An overtired child is never good.

[EscapeInTheCity]

sorry lots of xpost there.
Too fast moving for me lol.

[IvorHughJackolantern]

Getting him into the nursery routine sounds sensible. And really bloody obvious now

Thank you............my brain used to work. I'm sure it did

It took my mum suggesting this to me after 6 bloody months of me weeping down the phone at her that he wouldn't settle into his routine after his nursery days, didn't want tea when I was offering it but was obviously hungry etc. We switched, I gave him his lunch and tea at the ridiculously early hours the nursery do, and he was loads happier. As was I.

I used to have a working brain too

Naps will, I'm sure, work themselves out. DS was doing same as yours and still doesn't nap much on nursery days though can do a good 2 hours at home. But it doesn't distress him anymore.

[greeneyed]

I don't think you are being unreasonable if they have said they will do something and are not doing it (or attempting to), however they are definitely over promising and should have managed your expectations better - suggest a sit down meeting with key walker to talk about what you both think might be achievable. At my sons nursery he had to follow their routine but actually he went down better there than at home, I think because he saw all the other children going to sleep at the same time.

[greeneyed]

oh and we adjusted our home routine to nursery's for meal times and sleeps - good luck with this one

[catgirl1976]

Ivor thank you for that! It is so nice to know it's not just me...........I can't see the wood for the trees sometimes

Just told DH the advice and he was also like "Oh yeah.....................of course. That makes sense. Why didn't we think of that before...."

There is much face palming going on in this house tonight :)

[Climbingpenguin]

with children it is generally about their total sleep in 24 hours rather than their naps.

Then again mine were/are massive fans of 30 min naps. DS often gets 50 mins total and I've learnt to make do while cursing that baby number two was supposed to be the sleeper

I think it is worth a talk at nursery, at the end of the day they did state they would fit into your babies routine and hopefully find somewhere in the middle. Good luck

[midseasonsale]

Is there an easy way of getting him off without leaving the others? ie) putting him in a buggy in the nursery room and rocking him? The leaving him asleep in the corner.

You need to tell them that he is having an awful time at home after his days in nursery due to lack of sleep. Go into detail about what happens.

Alternatively accept that things go pear shaped there and get him into bed by 6.30pm, having had tea much earlier.

[midseasonsale]

Maybe you could come in and show them how to put him down and go through what he does (roll around etc)

[3LittleHens]

YANBU
He is getting far too little sleep.
I do sympathise though - my little boy could sleep for England and if he didn't get enough sleep he was a nightmare.
I would speak to them again very firmly but kindly, afterall you chose the nursery partly based on their understanding/flexibility on this issue.
In the meantime could you not get him to bed a lot earlier than 8pm on nursery days - say 6pm, particularly as he is getting such little sleep on these days?

[Runningblue]

Op, I can really understand you stressing over this, and you've had bags of good ideas and feedback.
But, do just consider that
1 babies do their nursery day thing, and their home thing. Both good and bad. For example at nursery when he had naps, after the age of one when he went into the toddler room, my DS used to be the first to walk over to his sleeping mat and lie down and go to sleep. At home he was a little blighter who wouldn't settle for a nap for love nor money.
2 you have a very carefully honed routine at home, that you hold dear, for sanity and 'best results' for your day with DS. However unfortunately all routines change IME as the baby develops and has different needs. He might be beginning to demonstrate he needs one longer nap after lunch, rather than two naps. This does happen around a year old. If a baby is 'between nap needs' it can bizarrely make him not great at napping full stop.
You might find this is coming out at nursery, but actually may be a sign that requirements for sleep are on the change.

I don't think you are bu, but equally use the expertise of the nursery and their advice on what they think would help with DS. For this stage in DS's life their ideas might inform the next steps in his developing routine.
Good luck

[midseasonsale]

I think you need to know that they have at least put him in the cot and allowed him time to nod off twice a day.

[catgirl1976]

This thread has been great

So much good advice!

Now, please could one of you move in with me and tell me what to do all the rest of the time :) I still can't get over the fact that I have actually been entrusted with raising a child. I have no idea who sanctioned such a clearly foolish plan.

I honest to god spent most of my pregnancy looking for a book that told me exactly what to do, like a step by step guide or an instruction manual. I was most perturbed when I found there was no such thing!

Thank god for MN though........... lots of advice and the occasional, much needed slap to give you your perspective back

Thank you :)