To exclude a family member?

[Dancergirl]

....from a family celebration due to that family member having personal hygiene issues?

Oh that's so :(.

Perhaps you could buy her some pads and try and see if that helps? Can I ask if she's in continent because she's lost control of her bowels or whether she finds she needs to go more often and struggles to get to the loo?

Oh my PIL regard my parents and sister as part of the family

I know they don't want to smell it but sometimes you have to put your personal feelings aside for someone else's sake don't you?

aldi there's no way my mum would bath at our house. She's only comfortable at home but I couldn't even insist she baths there, she doesn't let me in the house.

Is she getting in care workers to help with washing herself? If not then this may improve things and would also mean an extra friendly face at least once a day. Just contact the social services dept and get them to arrange- in our area there is no charge.

I have tried social services a few years ago. They kept a case file on her for a while. The trouble is, she won't let anyone in the house and after a while SS said they couldn't do anything and closed the file.

I have explained her situation to PILs but they don't really seem to care. I'm reallly worried about the party because I don't want my mum's feelings to be hurt. Of course I won't tell her about it but if she finds out I won't know what to say.

I think you have to be honest with her. If she's a sulker, and unhappy, maybe she needs to understand why she's being excluded.

Your mum is going to be hurt either way.

I know you are hurt on her behalf, but don't think too badly about your PILs... from what you've said there maybe more to this than a bad smell?

Dancergirl, my sympathy. My grandmother ( stubborn proud woman) spent the last few years of her life smelling of stale wee.

My parents bought her pads, new knickers, new skirts, stockings etc. she refused to see a Dr. She refused home help and wouldn't let them into her home. She was that woman on public transport who made you gag. And none of us could help her as she refused and refused my parents access to her home if they really pushed it. The Doctor said she had to want help. Age Concern had no suggestions on how to stop her stubbornness.

When she died my dad found a mountain of pads he had bought all unused.

It was so sad because her last years were lonely. If she went to my parents my mother had blankets on the chairs which would be wet when she left.

I understand your frustration. If you can kit her out in a new outfit and take her to the loo every hour ( like a toddler) then I applaud you. Lots of luck.

Thank you.

I know it's difficult but I still think to exclude someone for this reason is unkind. Suppose it was a child who had physical or mental disabilities and was excluded for that reason...there would be an outcry surely...?

pancake that's so sad and I'm sorry to hear about your mum.

Dancergirl It's very hard, but honestly I don't think you can blame your PiLs. It is the most natural thing in the world for you to react like that about your mum, and I would too. But unless you generally think of your PiLs as selfish or rude people, I suspect they are just drawing a line of tolerance that you aren't prepared to, but which is reasonable for them.

This is happening in my family, and without going into details one (adult) child of the person concerned basically didn't want to admit for a long time how bad things were. This included repeatedly saying things like "But it's not that bad, you should just put up with it!" about a smell that was in fact truly awful, composed of a lot of things, and indicative of much deeper problems. The whole gamut of personal hygiene "controls" seemed to fail at once, and it just wasn't possible to predict what was going to happen any more. It was not reasonable or fair on anyone to have the person in social situations in that state.

I agree with aldiwhore, sounds like there is much more to this than the smell, particularly if she doesn't let people into her house.

Dancergirl - I think the issue is here that she may very well be able to sort the problem or at least alleviate it but appears unwilling to do so. ANd so I don't think a child with disabilities is really a fair comparison.

You are asking a lot from your inlaws and I think you are being unrealistic in expecting them to ignore your mums issues.

If she will not accept help and refuses to wash then she is bringing it on herself, it is very sad but not your inlaws problem to deal with.

I think you should refocus the anger you have for your inlaws into getting your mother to realise she needs help. Telling her the truth about her hygine (or lack of) may be what she needs to hear in order to accept help.

It sounds like it is time to get social services / GP on board. She may have underlying health issues like an untreated infection.

I agree with getting carers as mentioned above, also I would be worried about increased risk of urinary infections. My gran kept getting these and they gave her very confused scared symptoms. It got to the point where my nan was given an ultimatum, accept carers or go in a home. Sad, but she loved the carers when she got them!

Talking with my nurse hat on now.. Try to find out if the smell is stale urine in her pants and skirts. If it is get her pads etc, wipes. If its not that it may be due to a urine infection which can cause a fishy smell. This can also cause incontinence. It may be wise to try and dipstick her wee if you can't get her to the docs. You can buy dipsticks from boots. If it has a lot of protein in it she may have an infection. Then she needs antibiotics. This may sort the whole problem out.

Look, sorry, but it is perfectly reasonable of your inlaws not to want their party wrecked by someone who is not only stinky but obnoxious. They have their other guests to think of. They do not have any kind of duty of care to your mother.

Given the implication that your mother is horrible to you as well I think you need to turn her over to the professionals and let go of the guilt. You can't help someone who refuses help, and projecting your distress onto other people does no good either.

Also, in the case of a child with continence or other hygiene issues, it's the responsibility of the child's parents/carers to minimize smells and mess in other people's homes or in social settings, not to expect them to put up with an un-dealt-with stench.

This is going to sound extreme but my mil was smelling very bad and we put it down to her soiling herself, being a larger lady, and not being able to get to the bathroom in time.
She had a huge bedsore on her back that she didn't tell anyone about (didn't want to worry us cause we had a baby on the way) basically the smell got so bad one of her carers talked to her about it and she admitted to what it was. She had to go into hospital, it was that bad it had gone down to the bone and she had to have a pump and a drain put into it.
The truth is that she died from it, she did have other health problems but her body couldn't take the strain of the infection. She died when her first grandson was 8 days old, I don't mean to scare you but just make sure it is just her soiling herself and not anything else.

I don't mean to sound rude, but if you knew about your mum's hygiene issues then why didn't you do something about it earlier? I know you say she's stubborn, but it sounds like she's needed help for ages. She also sounds isolated and depressed. If she won't talk to you, you could be the bigger person and keep contact for the sake of her emotional and physical well being.

I'm pretty sure the smell is stale wee. Of course there could be an infection too but unless she lets anyone try and help her there's no way of knowing.

Thanks all for your input and putting some perspective on it. I know they have no responsibility towards her but I just thought it would be kind thing to do to invite her. If the tables were turned, I would certainly try and include an elderly, vulnerable person. But maybe that's expecting too much.

Dancergirl - the doctor would be a good idea; there may be a simple remedy; or if not she might get pads on the nhs which would save her money.

Good luck trying to persuade her though..

OP, you're not listening to us. I'm sure she is both elderly and vulnerable, but it sounds as if she's also got other more serious problems. IMO the fact that your PiLs no longer feel like they can deal with her socially should be a wake-up call, if they're usually reasonable people. As should the fact that she won't let you into her house. You presumably have very little idea what it's getting to be like in there.

If you can't do anything about it, then you can't. It's not your fault if a stubborn person won't be helped. But don't blame other people for setting what sound like pretty reasonable boundaries.

It is expecting too much to want people to invite someone who stinks and is unpleasant to everyone, to a family party. What about the other guests? Why should they have to put up with it?

Ok, fair point, thank you.

Do you think maybe Dancergirl that you're hurt, but your DM won't be bothered about being excluded? I'm just thinking that if she won't let people including her own daughter into her home, she can't really be bothered about social things.

Doesn't make it any easier for you though.

If you have a child with hygiene issues, you impose your will on them and wash and clean and brush them even if they are screeching and flailing. The difficulty you seem to be having is redefining your relationship from daughter to carer.
As aldi said:
'MY FIL has Alzheimers and is terrible at personal hygiene... we bring him to our house, run a hot bath with as many bubbles as it can take, pretty much order him into it, then steal his clothes (we give him PJs and a robe and slippers) I boil wash and dry his clothes while he waits. I am quite matronly, I apply deoderant to him, I give him a squirt of aftershave. He's always been quite a 'ripe' person, but clean clothes washed with freebreeze conditioner (and sometimes given a squirt of it whilst wearing) keep the odour to reasonable levels. I always sit next to him at parties, and I always have freshmints I force on him. '

Are you prepared to do what might be necessary, or will you flap around on the sidelines, waffling on about how your PIL aren't being very kind? It's a harsh choice you are facing, but are you going to cross the line?

I'm not so sure about that, I think crossing the line in the sense of forcing things on people is only appropriate when Alzheimers or clear dementia is in point. Ultimately the mother is her own person, and can make her own decisions while she's capable of it. Usually I think you'd need a mental health assessment of some kind to override that, wouldn't you? Carers and cleaners and so on won't go into someone's house against their will, while their will still has legal force.

Madbus - that was the situation with my grandmother. She had no diagnosed illness. So the Dr's and the care services could not do anything without her consent. And she wouldn't even talk to them so it was stalemate. I was never sure if she knew how much she smelt or not.