A new thread about those too lenient sentences for care workers who abused patients

[Brycie]

Because the other one went off over the horizon.

Sign in here if you think the sentences would have been a lot longer if the people abused had not had severe mental disabilities.

It was prolonged, premeditated cruelty and some were not even sent to jail.

The first time this documentary was on myself and DH were almost shouting at the TV in anger .... and I was in tears. It is deplorable that such people are not punished more severely for actions like this.... the justice system certainly seems skewith to put it mildly.

I think it is unfair to say that anone not in the sn sections dont care. I care very, very much for the people I work with and fight tooth and nail to ensure that everyone is treated with respect. Sadly though I do see see often the "low level" disrepect (bordering on abuse occasionally) usually in temporary or new staff .... but sometimes in long term staff ... and most certainly I challenge it. ( Recently made formal complaint) Have to say though that it I agree with merlot......... that managarial staff do have to be the ones to ulitmately deal with this and little changed after my formal complaint..... the person is still working !!!!!. It is actually rather hard to dismiss someone ... there has to be something really serious and provable because if not the employer can be challenged through the legal system. Its not enough to say the person in "not good" at the job !

I know a lot of my colleagues that care very, very much too about the people we work with .... and some go very much above and beyond the call of duty.

There ARE good people out there in the "caring" role and sadly although we welcome exposure of things like this case there is an aspect of it that really saddens us ..... people generally come to distrust the profession as whole and make blanket assumptions.

Yes the profession is low paid, very low paid, and can be very demanding. It is seen by many as unskilled and, to be perfectly honest , some people start in it and then say "well I am not putting up with all "that stuff" for such crap money" .... meaning some of the behaviours that can be presented in some settings on a daily basis. Some others are nice but just scared .... they want to "care" for the right reasons but are not suited to the more challenging situations ( just like some people not suited to blood / vomit / operations in other sections of the care profession).

There are just not enough of the right people wanting to do these jobs..... partly because anyone wanting to start a family / buy a house just cannot afford to do so ... well not till they are off the basic care part. The hours can be very long / unsocial with pressures to work extra because of staff shortages.... often with no overtime /bonuses/ enhanced pay for doing so . While supermarkets pay more with much less stress then why would young people consider this profession any more ?

This makes the profession then open to some people who will behave more like the ones carrying out these atrocities.......... maybe they had failed at other jobs, maybe they didn't have qualifications and thought the job was "easy", maybe they though it was "money for old rope" if they had time to be "bored" and / or that they could lord it over people with less power than them . There are many facets / layers to unravel in situations like this as to the whys and wherefore's the situation arose / continued. For sure its not a new phenomonon !

I will stop there although this stirs up soooo many issues to do with trust / relationships and the ways that carers /HCP and people who need our support interrelate........ could extrapolate much more !!!

Sorry OP ....... yea they should have got have got much stiffer sentences..... and sadly yes, I think if it had been children sentences would have been stiffer.

I do wonder if the judge "took into account" that there may have been some instances where the staff had been subject to physical challenges on their persons and that some restraints were seen as necessary /???? Not I am not agreeing with this - just posing the question as to why the mental health act was citied in relation to AG response.

I agree that management is key. I had a job in a homeless shelter and left, partly because I felt that policies were dangerous and clients were at risk. I asked my manager and his manager for exit interviews. I wasn't given one by either of them. They didn't want to know and didn't care. They were not the ones dealing with assaults and ODs. We were. Stressful, low-paid and dangerous. I love working in social care but saw fellow staff with less training and experience get very out of their depths. Staff had depression, health problems, relationships issues, housing issues. Not even slightly an excuse of course but proper training and supervision are absolutely essential.

Fair point, MrsTP.

The owners make a hell of a lot of money from running care homes. Usually employing people on minimum wage to do the really important work. Those owners should be made personally liable for the quality of care, just as NHS senior managers and execs should be personally liable for the quality of care in hospitals and clinics. That would focus minds and put responsibility where it belongs - with both frontline staff and with those who employ the wrong people, or create a situation that allows wrongdoing to flourish or prevents good people doing a good job.

I worked in social care for over 20 years.

Whatever the pressures on the carers hosing someone down in the garden with cold water etc is a crime.
I do understand a lot of what you are saying though Tazzle- these carers seemed inadequate to the job/ basically totally inadequate people. Also some maybe power crazed and others easily led. There clearly was a culture of abuse.
BUT- crimes were committed and the abuse and sheer ferocity of the attacks on vulnerable people horrific.
The sentences are far too low and send a terrible message to society generally.

Don't get me wrong, Sunflowers I am not saying that people who abuse other human beings, and vulnerable ones at that, shouldn't have the book thrown at them. They should. I am saying that a system where under-qualified, underpaid, inexperienced people have jobs that are challenging, difficult and stressful is going to have these abuses.

Training and supervision need to be regular and skillful. If they are not present, you will have issues. For example, after me and my staff saw a man's head being repeatedly smashed against a wall, we were offered neither debriefing nor training. One of my staff that night developed serious MH issues afterwards. Had she started abusing clients, she should have been jailed. However, she just turned it on herself and became very ill.

Whole system needs to be re-evaluated. Unfortunately societal values seem screwed- older people, those with learning disabilities are simply not valued enough in our society. How the hell do we deal with that.
Enshrining things properly in law would be a start but obviously deeper investigation needed.

Oh you have my full agreement sunflowers..... that was just torture pure and simple with the water. That kind of treatment has no excuse at all. I did agree that the sentences were deplorable !

I have been a HCP for 40 years and even when assaulted (including twice sexually) have never ever "hit back" or felt "vengeful " as there was always some mitigating cirumstance ( persons with oxygen deprivation , MH issues, frustration and lack of comprehension, person fearful etc. ). Sometimes others just do not or cannot acknowledge that there are often reasons not personal to themselves ( staff ) as to why someone people "in our care" express these emotions physically. Perhaps its empathy that is lacking as much as anything.

Thats not to say we should never physically defend ourselves or others ( I have done so) but there are procedures to safeguard everyone that should be followed. Sadly however even those are now viewed with more suspicion following the revelations about the "training" at that place !!! There it was portrayed on the training that physical intervention was commonplace and upped to maximum (and more) at a whim. Going out from that its then an "expectation" on staff this will happen.... of course then it just gets worse !!! Where I work its the opposite ....... the emphasis is on having awarenss of potential issues and avoiding wherever possible, providing appropriate activities and if someone is upset then distract / descalate / leave etc if posible. I certainly have not done any physical intervention in well over a year .... yet "challenges" occur every day.

I can certainly see why some of the posters here / parents /carers etc are worried about the future of residential care.... I am for a friends son should he ever need such a service ...... but I am also reassured in that another friends son is in a great place.

How on earth though do we change the HC ethos (especially in the older person and LI sectors) to one where its paid well enough so we dont struggle financially because of a career choice .... and where we can encourage good quality applicants to a job with respected status . How can we do when so many describe themselves as "just" a carer and are fearful of "getting it wrong" / being thought of in any way like the thugs in this case?

MIght sound like cart before the horse but we need good / happy staff so that those in residential placements ( and their relatives) need never fear such events as this one.

The 'just a carer' attitude must change. My career choice surprised those I went to university with in the 80s. I stayed with direct care in the community [with some team leading responsibilities].
I have not become rich!
Being a carer should be a valued role attracting worthwhile people who see it as a valuable career choice. A role where the excellent support, care and empathy they offer is respected in society both financially and by other professions and people generally.
As long as it is a Cindarella role [and those who care for family members invisible/ ignored] we will have these awful situations.
Also hospital care should have been phased out long ago. [In fact there was a campaign to do so many years ago and many learning disability hospitals shut. Wonder where those carers went though?].