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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think if this was your DS travelling north by train this morning from around Leamington Spa you should be ashamed of yourself?

70 replies

CharminglyOdd · 25/10/2012 21:27

It made me so fucking furious at the time, even more so because I was travelling on a staff card so couldn't say anything - if I create a fuss whilst using a staff card I get disciplined. Then I thought maybe his parents would be on MN and would recognise him and maybe have a fucking word Angry At the very least I need to vent.

He has brown hair, is in lower sixth/first year of A levels and was travelling with a girl a year older who was off to visit her sister. The usual teenage angst/competing with each other to see who they have slept with/who fancies them and blatantly subtley flirting at the same time. I blocked it out until the words "she was passed out and naked" came to my ears.

He was telling his friend - at the top of his voice - about how a girl he called "the whale" had been at a party. She had got very drunk and passed out, at which point he and his male friends stripped her naked and hid her bra (girl on the train asked gleefully "Did you hide her clothes?!", which is how I know that Angry). The poor drunk girl woke up as they were taking pictures of her and started sobbing.

He thought it was fucking hilarious. From the way he was talking I have no reason to doubt what he was saying - he didn't think it was a big deal, it was just something else to add to the conversation they were having. The girl he was sitting with said it was really funny. And I so wanted to interject and say how disgusting that was and I did nothing because I was scared of getting into serious trouble with work (have only been there a month).

I am twenty five and can honestly say I don't think any of the boys my age when I was seventeen would have behaved like that. Let alone a whole group of them. That's not to say they were saints but they wouldn't have stripped someone naked, filmed them and laughed when they cried. That poor, poor girl :(

OP posts:
makingitin2012 · 25/10/2012 23:15

Apologies, did just note a couple of other poster's did comment on the girl who found it 'funny' too. Still can't believe the thread is directed towards the boy only though - double standards that will continue to reinforce those double standards. That is also sad.

GoldenPeppermintCreams · 25/10/2012 23:51

I would also call your local police station. If you know the school you could call them too.

Pochemuchka · 25/10/2012 23:52

higgy if you're referring to me, I did call them up on it but they carried on talking about it in more hushed tones, while tutting and generally being annoyed.
What should I have done next? Shouted at them? Given them a lecture? Carried on at them not knowing how they'd respond when I had 2 DC under 4 with me and am heavily pregnant? I did bow out after the first intervention because they clearly had little respect for what I'd said and had made that apparent.
It was a late train and there was only one other girl on there who was early twenties at the most and looked equally uncomfortable.

NonnoMum · 25/10/2012 23:57

So, you heard a report of a sexual assault AND YOU DIDN'T REPORT IT?

That's how Jimmy Savile got away with it.

Don't tell us, tell the police...

Inneedofbrandy · 26/10/2012 00:05

I'm 24 and yes "back in the day" the boys were complete shits, think putting a hole in a bathroom floor at a house party, shitting and urinating through teachers letter boxes, firework fights, joyriding and muggings (I could go on and on and on) nothing as vile as this ever happened. I can't believe at 24 I'm saying times have changed urgh.

Elec · 26/10/2012 00:05

If you hear similar again you could use iPhone to record it if you have one. Look for anything giving away school attended then tell school

chocoluvva · 26/10/2012 00:15

No it's not just you or me - see ChristmasKate's post.
I am really hoping he was making it up or at least exaggerating.
Very depressing.

Original poster
CharminglyOdd · 26/10/2012 07:29

No Nonno it didn't occur to me because I don't know their names and they weren't in uniform - it's half term where I live (not sure how many sixth forms/colleges have uniform anyway).

I know a vague description of the boy (and girl), what seats they were in (which were unreserved so no names there), roughly where they may have joined the train and roughly where they might have been leaving (within 50 miles). I realise it's not clear in my OP but I only know where they live because the girl was talking about how it's so boring to live there - I don't live anywhere near Leamington. In all honesty I didn't think that was enough to make any kind of investigation on. It happened at a private party (so I can't tell the police where to look for CCTV). But, when I get home today I will be reporting it, as some have suggested, so if the victim comes forward I can provide a supporting statement. I really doubt the police authority (who are totally different from the one where it took place - and I have been told before when reporting something serious that they can't do anything unless I travel to that police authority to report it in person) will investigate solely based on what I say. But I will do it.

In case it wasn't clear by my the wording in my OP I don't agree with what the travelling companion girl did either, clearly, and neither does anyone with their head screwed on. I spoke to my DM about it last night and she suggested that maybe the girl on the train felt like she couldn't raise any objections in case she sounded 'uncool' (she was obsessed with this in the conversation - "Do you think I'm cool? Really? Oh, go on, I'm not? Oh but I am." etc.). But maybe that's being overly charitable.

OP posts:
IvorHughJackolantern · 26/10/2012 07:33

I have been told before when reporting something serious that they can't do anything unless I travel to that police authority to report it in person

Not true, and if you're told that again dispute it. The force where the victim/witness lives can take details and it's then up to them (the force it was reported to) to transfer it to the relevant force. Because this occurred on a train this would be transferred in the first instance to the British Transport Police.

IvorHughJackolantern · 26/10/2012 07:35

By 'witness' I mean that you witnessed this male claiming responsibility for an assault, I know this didn't happen on the actual train.

TheDoctrineOfSnatch · 26/10/2012 07:37

Makingit I don't think the girl should have laughed, no. Both of them behaved horribly.

But there are no double standards in thinking participating in a sexual assault is worse than laughing about a description of one.

Original poster
CharminglyOdd · 26/10/2012 07:44

Ah, okay, thanks Ivor. I am waiting until I get home also because I am currently in a rural area and I live in a large urban one (one of the largest in the UK) so I am hoping that their police will be more clued up and have the resources to do whatever they can. I'll report back what they say.

OP posts:
quirrelquarrel · 26/10/2012 07:51

I'm 19 and none of my same-age friends or I would find that remotely normal to hear about.

It's not because he's a teenager, it's because he's a fucking vile person. For once just lay some responsibility down at our feet instead of going all "aw, they're not 21 yet, it's just kid stuff". Not that anyone here's saying that exactly. But sorry, people who talk like that but wouldn't actually do it are still capable, it's not just because they're silly/immature.

OP, you could have written them a letter or note while they were talking and slipped it to him just before you'd left the train.

TheReturnOfBridezilla · 26/10/2012 07:59

Teenage boys do horrible things sometimes. They'll look back in a few years and realise what an awful thing that was to do to someone but at the moment it's all hilarious. At 17 I doubt it's his parents' fault. Peer pressure, outside influences etc but I doubt it's something they promote at home over dinner.

I can understamd you not wanting to get involved because it was none of your business but why would you have got in serious trouble at work for telling them that you had overheard and thought it was a horrible thing to do by the way?

ScarahScreams · 26/10/2012 08:07

That is awful. God the girl who found it funny Sad

exoticfruits · 26/10/2012 08:07

Not just you- the girl's reaction was equally shocking.

exoticfruits · 26/10/2012 08:09

Mine was in reply to makingitin2012- I missed a few posts. I hate double standards.

INeedThatForkOff · 26/10/2012 08:17

Just out of interest, would it be permissible discreetly to record such a conversation as evidence?

MyCannyBairn · 26/10/2012 08:19

I would have taken their pictures. I'm in my forties but can think of teenagers I knew in my day who given todays tech would have probably done as fucked up things as that.
You have to report it, you don't have a choice.

exoticfruits · 26/10/2012 08:22

Being a bit cynical I wonder who you report it to and who would take notice? It is a mad world where if you take photos you can be the one in trouble. Better to tackle them directly and make them think about their actions.

IvorHughJackolantern · 26/10/2012 08:42

I have found myself thanking my lucky stars several times this year that I was born when I was and managed to escape being a teen in this age of social media and camera phones.

They may not be able - or willing - to do anything op, but it's the best thing you can do without a doubt.

fuzzpig · 26/10/2012 08:43

It is so disgusting. What a vile couple of people. I'd love to think it was just showing off on both their parts but then even making that up (and yes, laughing at it too) is just horrible.

I can't imagine anyone in authority taking any notice though. :(

exoticfruits · 26/10/2012 08:44

Just be warned- a neighbour decided to 'do the right thing' and he was the one cautioned!

StrawberrytallCAKE · 26/10/2012 09:15

So are they both from leamington?

ruffletheanimal · 26/10/2012 10:25

poor girl
for what its worth, massively salacious and completely untrue rumours were broadcast all over north london - the populations of at least 3 secondary schools - about me when i was 15. the very basic core of which was that i had 'entertained' a group of boys complete with 'shiners' (blow jobs) all round and put on quite a show.
in fact i had had a v tame one-to-one losing of my virginity.
there was absolutely no truth to the horrible story - which originated from a friend of the boys themselves, who i hadnt even met actually, but was told as a bragging story.
incidentally, when i confronted the boy who had started the rumours (i traced him by asking people who had told them) he apologised immediately and was v sheepish.

i do think most people were really shocked by the story - probably why i was cooperated with when i asked people who theyd heard it from which allowed me to find the boy.

that was over 20 years ago. its not a times have changed thing. in fact, the story probabl wouldnt even be believed nowadays due toi a lack of photo/filming evidence... but the 19yo who posted that its not an age thing but a vile person thing is right too.

all im saying is that HOPEFULLY this poor girl didnt go through anything anywhere near as vile as is being talked about between the teenagers. i can cross my fingers and hope.

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