to think that if you used to moan about the Tax Credits system....

[ThatVikRinA22]

that you have a lot more to moan about now?

I always used to wonder why people bemoaned the Tax Credit system - it enabled me to go back to work, it helped me pay for child care that made working worth while - it really helped me when my children were younger, before TC i used to work, but most of my wage went on child care.

Up until this government got it, we still got a small amount of TC, - it helped hugely.

Yesterday, i got the renewal through. Ive not had any payments for months and so i rang them to ask why they had sent a renewal through that made no sense - it said we should get about £4k but then deducted £4k.....

so i rang them.
Now, if your household income is more than £26k (with one child still at school) you get nothing.

if our household income was 26k, we would be unable to pay our mortgage, or eat. I have no idea how they think that people with families to support, who pay mortgages and rising bills, petrol costs etc can afford to live on that?

my wages look good, but by the time ive paid into the (rapidly declining) pension, £200, paid petrol, £250, mortgage, £685, council tax, bills and food, and im trying to support my eldest through university by paying for his food, there would be a serious serious shortfall if we had only my wage alone.....

i have said on threads before that i couldnt understand people moaning about the TC system.....

Is it a case of you dont know what you ve got until its gone?

www.thecommentator.com/article/1760/over_half_of_uk_households_are_net_beneficiaries_of_the_state
For example

niceguy

family credit introduced in 1986 by conservatives and was changed in 1999 to working families tax credits by labour but initially aranged by conservatives (apparently). in 2003 it changed to the tax credit system we now have.

all 3 are effectively the same thing. as each one was designed to replace and be instead of the previous.

just thought you might want to know that.

Er...sugarmouse, did you miss the bit where I said my son was disabled. Is it okay if I "sponge" off the state while caring for him. Pray do tell?

And I was kidding about the massive Lego set....I actually bought him a cheap coat as he does not have one and I drew a blank on eBay and in charity shops where I am quite happy to buy clothes from when they have them in DS's size.

If you would rather we starved or went cold though just say so...

By the way....where do I send the "Thank You" card?

suger fuck the actual fuck off.

i do not belive you just effectivly called a disabled child's parents spongers for getting him lego

Oh and sugarmouse, did you also miss the bit in my other posts where I explained that I had worked full time for 30 years before March this year AND DID NOT NEED TO CLAIM ANYTHING.

Yeah...a right sponger me.

So with the greatest respect sugarmouse get lost.

I didn't buy Lego, I was being ironic....I don't have the money for Lego. I do just about have enough to buy my son a much needed coat though.

Sock - sugarmouse posted 4 hours ago! Or are you just piling in in support of jake?

It just seemed odd timing

Coat was £20 in Tesco....where do I send the thank you card? Actually it came from his manintainance so a guessing the money IS actually mine...or DS's at the very least....I know I'll send the Thank You card to exH...him being a tax payer and all.

Nope this is my fault londonone,....I resurrected the thread when I saw sugarmouses's response to my post....she was offensive and I have said so. End of.

Yeah that's fair enough. It's just that sock had previously posted and not responded to sugarmouse, until you came along! To be fair sugarmouse makes me want to shout!

london well i never, you learn a new thing every day. i was under the impression that to be a net contributor you had to not recive any state benefits of any kind even none direct benefits or benefits in kind, not obtain your income from any gov subsidised employees work, obtain no gov tax breaks nor recive as a person or a company any gov incentive payouts.

there way of looking at it is a bit strange imho

bit odd tho that they have included all state employees la,nhs,police,fire/mod and pensioners in there figures as benefit recipiants looks like david c is a drain on the state.despite describing himself and his cronies as net contributors

no london i had to do some work and only just saw that shit comment

Ah I see! Where did you get the idea that all state employees are net beneficiaries, that snot suggested by those figures!

Is not

it is if you follow the links they referance back and look at the classifications they use like dependant on the state. as opposed to benefit claiments.

also strangely loads of the referances they have used are in turn referancing usa publications.

ive got my admin lady going through them all now as its very intresting.

im very very boring and luffs reading this sort of stuff

Which link? Because I have read the CPS PDF and that certainly doesn't support that?

link to cps then the ones at the bottom of that. mostly news papers tho.

. obviously i havent had time to read all of them really deeply but it does look like they have been included in the figures

im just reading the pdf now. but its not easy for me to see the graphs because they are all blurry.

Those aren't references, they are media reaction to the cps report!

Jake

You dont need to justify yourself to trolls.

haha i didnt even notice that. must be having a stupid day.

any idea why they have included pensioners in the pdf? dont know about you but that seams strange to me.

They have done with and without pensioners, but included as they are huge part of social expenditure and in general do not contribute partic high tax receipts. I find it striking what a massive percentage it is though that are beneficiaries even once pensioners are removed

im with you on that one. its really rather intresting tho.

thinking about it in the context of real life, do you reckon that its highly likly that those in the say top 5% of earners use fairly high ammounts of those in the lower groups in the course of obtaining there wealth?

or am i just being to left.

i often think about how they work out who has benefited state wise precisely or do they just use estimates i.e they could assume i use the nhs/education/loads of subsidised things but the only one i actually use is the bus. yet my friend uses the nhs loads due to several health issues all her kids are in state school.

Yes they obvs use averages. So if you have four kids in school all born on the Nhs then you will use more than a single childless person. Though I think they think that health etc does often average over a lifetime for most people obvs some exceptions. With regard to to earners I.e the top 20 percent, not necessarily as they are often doctors, lawyers etc so skill based rathe than other peoples labour. The top one percent s where the real money is but given the type of industry in this country few of those would necessarily have a huge workforce.

it could have been very entertaining if we could have shoved a few childless hypercondriac bus roamer ex convicts into the mix just for giggles.

just having a few thoughts, a friend of mine working in a newsagents the owner is fairly well off has a fair few newsagents and a factory.

at the shop ive been to he employs about 20 staff members all on nmw most of them are lone parents so on tax credits he will not allow anybody to work more than 16 hours pw and thats inc at all his places.it just seams massively wrong to me that its ok for him to do this.he easyly employs a few 100 people all at really low wages.

it just seams sad to me that often people have no choice but to accept terms like that

Well yes it is sad that we can't all have fulfilling well paid jobs unfortunately some things are valued more highly than others. If your friend couldn't get staff then he might pay more.