to judge people whose dogs'

[Fabulousfreaks]

tails have been docked? Is there ever a justifiable reason for this?

We live in a national park where game hunting is common, right in the midst of the forest so we see many of the working dogs here. One guy has a Springer which is docked and beats and a lab who joins them. Not sure if the lab has a practical use but recently he injured his tail and each time I have seen him since the huge red balloon like infection on the end has been bigger

I think it will have to be amputated soon as it looks like treatment isn't working well just now.

Oh, and please don't judge smelly doggys. My old dog stank to high heaven because of his anal glands until the day he died but he was the most amazing dog ever. I miss him and his honk a great deal!

Haven't read all of this but YABU . My terrier X came from Battersea and was docked , He does still have about 5/6 inches of tail and looks lovely !

Yabu .Please don't judge until you know the whole story .My lovely dog has her tail docked ,but nothing to do with us .We got her when she was 2 years old and when we lived in NZ ,where at the time it was the norm and totally acceptable for her breed ( boxer ) .

My mums spaniel is from a working line, but was sold as a pet so didn't have his tail docked. He is the most gorgeous cocker you would come across with a beautiful feathery tail which he is soon to loose due to continual infection. Mum doesn't want to have it amputated but know that its need doing.

Too true LtEve My dog is all nose, and follows a scent with no regard for his personal safety. We've had numerous injuries, tanglings and tears. I keep his ears very short to try and limit the risk of them being shredded in the bushes. He never seems to feel an injury as he's so focused on the trail I have met a couple of working cockers with intact tails, and they are very long, thin, feathery affairs. Beautiful to see, but a danger to the dog's health if they're allowed to rummage as all spaniels like to do. I also wonder if I'd have any furniture left if our dog had still had his full tail. You've never seen a tail wag until you've seen an excited spaniel really going for it.

Dogs are docked with a pair of scissors, not a ligature.

They were, but now they are pretty much exclusively done with a ligature.

It does not hurt them when performed correctly (at under 5 days old) because puppies are not born with their nervous system intact - it 'kicks in' at about 6-7 days old.

All 3 of my boxers have their tails docked, 2 because they were docked when I got them, one who we had to take to the vets because he broke his tail, kept wacking it on walls and hurting it again.
I've fostered boxers too with tails, who have been given up by their owners because the tail has hurt their children. :( which I suspect is another reason why breeders dock them. To make them more sellable :(

I however, do not agree with the aesthetic reasons.

I think ear cropping is the worst IMO.

Dogs are docked with a pair of scissors, not a ligature
How do you know?

Every boxer breeder I know, has used the elastic band technique, from when they are very small so the tail drops off.

One of mine has a docked tail. Judge the person who docked it by all means and judge the people who buy puppies who've had their tails docked by the seller, but be careful you know who you are judging. I rehomed my dog from the pound. I wasn't about to walk away and let him be pts there just because some numpty had docked his tail.

I bought my Star from a breeder, she had a docked tail. The reason I bought her is because she was the runt of the litter, and was also white. Which just about signs a boxers death certificate. They wanted rid and were going to kill her, so I took her.

has*

I'm not sure how the docking is really done, but just cutting the end off can't be it, surely? My two cockers were docked and both had hair on the end of their tail, so some skin must have been pulled over?

I know dog1's tail was done just after birth, not so sure about dog2 his didn't seem to be as tidy. I must say it saved them some damage in the house as they used to wag furiously.

The reason I should be judged is because we paid breeders and bought their KC certificates instead of getting them from a shelter.

We wanted puppies. Puppies are rarely available from shelters. We checked Birmingham dog's home, the Blue Cross in ... forgot name of place begins with B I think and the dog's trust... nothing but jack russells and pit bulls.

Boomerwang, thats what happens when they're docked, by an elastic band anyway.

Most breeders, when the pup is a few days old, will put a very very tight elastic band on the pups tail. This is then left on for a few days, the blood flow stops and the tail drops off. A bit like a babies umbilical cord with the peg.

Docking has been generally banned since 2007 with an exemption for working dogs of specific origin - HPR's, Spaniels and Terriers.

There is a specific list of defined 'work' which includes lawful pest control, law enforcement, work within the armed forces, lawful shooting of animals and emergency rescue.

It must be carried out by a vet, it must be certified by the vet and the vet can only legally carry out the docking if the puppies have signed paperwork stating the purpose for which they will be used - obv signed by someone with relevant authority and qualification. It must also be done before the pup is 5 days old.

HTH.

Eek - what are all these hideous tail injuries of which you speak?

My Springer spends most of his time in the undergrowth of his own volition and usually has a tail full of assorted debris, which I spend happy hours extracting, but he has never injured his tail.

And he uses his tail like a beaver's tail when he swims

we had a JRT as children, he came to us with a docked tail (his mum's owner thought that was what had to be done, the vet never questioned it and just docked the litter!)

Our poor boy had years of what we assume was arthritic pain in his stump. He would be sitting quietly and then suddenly jump up and yelp/howl in pain

It was about 20 years ago, but it still makes me sad when I see a non-working dog with a docked tail.

TopBlackDog is docked, traditional for the breed (rottweiler) and looks, IMO, better than the undocked ones. Puupies of her breed are now no longer allowed to be docked which I feel detracts from the original breed standard.
TopGingerDog is docked (legally, after the ban) as he is a working cocker.

Dogs from a working background can still be docked as puppies. The vet will require proof that the majority of the pups are destined for a working home, a letter from a shoot captain or gamekeeper IME. Docking is carried out before 5 days of age.

YABU to judge people. though your opinion is what has forced the change in the law which quite frankly could be time and money better spent stopping paedophiles or drug dealers

Many dogs were docked before the ban, therefore that was the norm, and quite a few are still docked now for very good reason.

The thing is dogs use their tails to communicate, so looks should not come into it. In the canine world tails have a use.

I can tell when my two un docked dogs are happy and relaxed around other dogs as opposed to nervous or aggressive much easier than I can with my docked dog, their tails wag in a relaxed, sweeping motion when they are happy. When they are feeling nervous their tails are held stiff and low and wag in a very slow controlled manner. The two with the undocked tails get into less confrontations than the docked dog does because other dogs can also read them more easily.

which quite frankly could be time and money better spent stopping paedophiles or drug dealers

Really? What a ridiculous comment to make.

Dooin I have to admit that you are right on that one. TopBlackDog can get into all sorts of scrapes which caould have been prevented had she been in posession of a long sweeping tail with which to make her dastardly intentions known.
However in the big scheme of things, a docked tail seems a crazy thing to get het up about :)

Sorry ghostship I missed your post when I posted.
What I had meant to imply was that there was far more important things that the government could be addressing rather than debating the merits of tail docking (which I do understand that some people feel very strongly about) and the consequent enforcement.
Perhaps I should take time to word my posts so that they closer resemble my actual train of thought :o

Vets have to dock tails for it to be done legally and it is just cut off. I'm a vet nurse and would never want to be present for this after seeing it once was enough. Dew claws is the same. And puppies do have intact nervous systems for birth hence why they squeak when it's done. I imagine having a limb chopped off must bloody hurt!

TopBanana, would you be in favour of docking children's fingers if it looked better? if you did it at birth, it wouldn't hurt that much....