AIBU to think that winter fuel payments should be means tested?

[PandaSpaniel]

Winter fuel payments (not to be confused with cold weather payments) are payments that are not means tested to anyone born before 1951. Am I missing something here???

If a person has a child under 5 living with them they have to be on a benefit and it has to be very very cold before a payment is given to them.

The Government keeps harping on about cutting benefits, well here is a good idea Slash the funding for keeping oldies warm unless they are on a low income. Why are we paying for people who are more than likely abroad in the winter months????

Oh wouldn't have anything to do with the fact that the majority of Tory voters are older would it?

There are plenty of donation schemes for this. I believe lots of better off over 60's simply hand back to charity, with a gift aid addition if they are tax payers.

Bus passes don't cost anything much I imagine if they are not actually used and tbh I don't begrudge pensioners getting a free ride however well off they are I don't ever often see obviously rich old men or women on the buses round here.

How can you gift aid a benefit that's not taxable?

Means testing involves massive administration costs and is not really worthwhile for such a small amounts. But I can't see who actually needs this allowance. With plethora of pension tax credits and benefits every single pensioner in this country is on very decent income. More than enough to afford heating even a sizeable home.
It's purely political instrument.

Toombs - you can gift aid an amount of money to a charity. This might be an equivalent amount to the heating benefit received.

vivien my parents are 67 & 63, they are on a very low income (pension) & need that winter fuel allowance. If it was 75 & over they would struggle with the current prices of gas!

means testing does sadly cost more money. It should just be opt in as someone else suggested

If means testing is too expensive then why not just cut this benefit altogether and put the money where it is needed.

It is wrong that the young are taking the brunt of the cuts but I agree that this government will never do anything that hits pensioners as they are big tory voters. To the argument that they have paid in to the system, I would suggest that those currently retired/retiring at 60-65 probably get a lot more back from benefits and the NHS than they ever paid.

Agent is right so yabu - it would cost more to administer than the amount saved by taking it away from those who are well off. Same true for child benefit.

Also i agree that whilst many older people benefitted from property price rises they may not be "cash rich". Also the richer ones paid most tax over their life so why shouldnt they get a (relatively small) benefit now?

Monkeysbignuts, I meant give it to everyone over the age of 75 (like the free TV licence) but means test it for people under 75. I suppose that would be a bit complicated though.

Viper - your comment re use of nhs resource is odd - surely all older people are likely to use nhs resources regardless of wealth - and the wealthy tend to be most healthy, so paid most tax but use least resource.

YANBU. Don't see why it can't be linked to Pension Tax Credit.

Monkey nuts - now that is a good idea - raise the age at which you qualify - the older people get the less money people have and much frailer - good plan - but wouldnt bother means testing the younger ones

my grand parents are 99 & 95, they get it and don't need it because gas and electric is included in their rent (sheltered accommodation).its crazy because they get enhanced rate with their age so i think its £300/400 payment straight into their account. ontop of pension credits and attendance allowance they are better of than me & dh!

joining i never said that?! talk about mince someone's words. read my previous posts!

I think those in receipt of pension credit or other existing means tested benefits and aged over 65 should get it automatically. Then there's no extra admin other than processing the payments, it would save a fortune and the most needy would still get it.

But I'd also use the extra money to reintroduce EMA, cut student fees or stop slashing disability payments. However Gideon would probably use it to fund a tax break for his cronies

YANBU - or opt in if it's too expensive to means test it.

Although I can't see how means testing it would cost more to administer - a simple declaration of income - than ATOS cost us all to reduce the DLA bill by very questionable means .

My parents are 70 & 64. They own a very nice home, heated much of the time by burning wood which they enjoy collecting on their walks or find on their own property, & spend most of the months between November & March on long Saga breaks. They agree that the winter fuel payment makes a very nice contribution to these, & they don't actually use it as intended, but won't voluntarily relinquish it as they are 'planning to pass everything on to you & your db, dear'.

Don't get me wrong, my parents are very nice people. They did indeed work hard & live frugally in their younger years. But they aren't huddling under blankets or over a shared Pot Noodle. The money could be far better deployed.

I do not want to see this means tested, but I do agree it should only be available to those living in the UK.

Prior to the WFA, we had pensioners freezing to death. The delightful Ms. Edwina Curry caused outrage by advising them to get knitting, I remember

The reason it wasn't means tested is that a lot of older people wouldn't have accepted it otherwise. It takes away their dignity to have to claim, cap in hand, and have their finances gone through.

I don't want to see a return of old people dying of hypothermia on a regular basis every winter because they can't afford heating and are too ashamed to admit it.

Only problem with opt in is some elderly maybe too frail to claim for themselves & we can't assume that they have family to do it for them?
Unless it was changed to opt in before the age of 75 & after you get it automatic?
Saying that some people would opt in for the free money, who wouldn't want £300 for nothing right before Christmas!

. The delightful Ms. Edwina Curry caused outrage by advising them to get knitting, I remember

and layering I remember her going on about cardis and layers

It does save a lot of lives, OP. But I do think we could maybe do more/better.

We don't get any help with fuel bills, though our income is less than out-of-work benefits and DP is severely disabled and can't regulate his temperature. We do have heating vs eating choices sometimes. We do wear hats and gloves and blankets inside. With the hoist and the lift and the wheelchair and so on, our bills are crazy.

I can't help but feel like a better approach would be to invest in wave power, get control over the energy industry, get bills down. That seems like the sort of Big Deal the government should be doing, rather than messing around with £25 here and £200 there and testing who's got a few more quid than someone else.

Redbindy is right: it's too expensive to means test it.

I know a lot of pensioners (my parents included) feel entitled to this benefit, justifyng it because they appeared to have "paid in" all those years of tax and NI without understanding that pensions don't actually exist, it's the tax raised on people working now that pays for pensioners benefits.

There is no 'pot' of money out of which they are doled their winter fuel allowance every year. Older people perhaps should get a bit more conscientious, perhaps donating their £200 to their struggling offspring?

I think they shoudl properly invest in fuel security rather than placating a large part of the electorate with subsidised utilities, which will probably cost us longer in the long run. But I'm a lefty loony so who cares

or, even more mental, pay them a proper pension.

I agree with you, my parents are in their 80s and get a very good occupational pension; they donate their's to Age Concern. My DF also tries to pay for his prescriptions but is told at the surgery that there is no system to allow pensioners to pay so he puts the equivalent in the 'Friends of the Surgery' box .