My friend's ds has autism, she would like my ds to spend more time with him.

[BatwingGirl]

I find this very unfair on ds (6) as he has made other friends at his school who want to come round and play. Both boys have pretty much grown up together, seeing eachother since they were babies. They go to different schools but as her ds has become older, it's become more challenging to have a decent playdate without tantrums every 2 minutes. I've tried to see my friend more while the boys are at school, but she tries very hard to time it for after school so that the boys can be together. I didn't want to say it to her and have said I'm busy after school, weekends I've stopped going out with her and the two boys as there will always be a scene in town. She ends up leaving him with me, walking off in a temper herself. It's very stressful.

For the last few weeks she has been coming round with some excuse (to see the kitten, to see the new rug, they made biscuits) and I can't exactly say no. She asks my ds to play with her ds (7) in his room. I don't like them being out of my sight as I know her ds can get very aggressive if he doesn't get his own way. My ds who does not know about his condition ends up very frustrated and scared. I'd like to keep my friend but not force my son to have to be his friend if he doesn't want to. I know if I say it to her she will really take offense. She feels like she has no one else and other mums from the school have dumped her since his diagnoses.
I just want an easier life. When Ds's other friends are round, they are like angels compared to my friend's ds.

Niminy i didn't see your apology so i also apologise (but to you!), just get so annoyed when someone is genuinely trying to get advice and help and get comments such as that. I thought the OP was being really nice, as it seems most people have deserted the friend. I have to admit i would be reluctant to continue the contact for the sake of my own child which made me think how wrong that is and how the said friend is actually lucky to have someone like the OP!

The thread and a couple of the comments just made me think about some of the things i saw on the "asked to watch colleagues mum on flight on way to Australia"!!!

I think all of the parents/relatives/friends of SN children have offered the OP some really good advice.

Out of interest i wonder how you would take it if you were the friend and the OP raised the conversation? Do you think it will ruin the friendship? I wonder whether the friend will then be able to re-establish relationships with other friends who had "dropped" her as maybe they were afraid to broach the whole thing?

is it maybe better for all if you were to go to their home to visit and the boys play?
My DS is always calmer, happier in his own space...he doesn't really play along with other kids but can play alongside iykwim...it makes a big difference if her DS is calm and able to cope with the environment, etc

Maybe you and DS going to their house would be better for you all...
I understand it's difficult and you want to stay friends and find ways to make things easier for you all.
I think your friend sounds quite overwhelmed. There is many a feeling of bereavement for any parent realising there child is different, it's not so easy for them and your hopes and dreams of parenthood and who your child will be is compromised by them having a condition(s) which mean so many issues and difficulties you had no thought of beforehand. I think your friend is very likely to be feeling marginalised, isolated, lonely and far more worried and concerned all the time....she has a great deal on her plate to deal with. I can see she is maybe clinging to you and needing your support, esp if there are few other people around her.

I think she will have walked off and this is more a clear sign that she is struggling and overwhelmed...she also felt she could do this with you and be this honest...she has showed you how she is really feeling perhaps.
I think it's a huge red flag that she needs help...sooner rather than later tbh.
You say yourself how uptight and upset you are with her DS when round at your house and having tantrums, etc....she is dealing all the time with this...imagine being in her shoes....it's so very hard 24/7 for anyone.

Maybe you could do some research on finding groups, social outlets, carers groups and things...your friend really needs support and it would be good to be able to find this from others with knowledge and understanding.

Is she getting any support through specialists in behaviour management, handling and teaching for her DS at all?....she needs resources and support to do these things. Working routines, home environment, practical things which help her to help her DS, etc

Maybe support her to try and seek/secure some of this from any meetings or appointments and go with her to group things if she needs a hand holding to go there....maybe she needs an advocate to help her with this...NAS, etc are very helpful with many many things....
It must be awful at home if her DH isn't supportive and maybe in a bit of denial about his son's issues....more common than you may think...she is stuck dealing with this loneliness too it sounds like.

I hope any of this has been of some help...I really hope you can find ways of staying friends and working to support your friend...she will work her way through all this...it would be so much better if she had a friend do help her do this though

Why isn't your friend getting any help from professionals - are there not groups for her to attend with him? Sorry if I'm asking a stoopid Q! I'm not in UK.

It sounds like she and he been badly let down by the system if she's having to walk away from him when he kicks off so as to control her own temper.

I wonder if she has been left too alone with this dx, and no back up or skills taught. Is there no community group to give her support with him?

Maybe it won't be popular here by saying that I feel it isn't your job to endanger your DS just so she can have downtime.

You need to talk freely and openly about your reservations about having her aggressive DS over and unsupervised.

AND also remember, that your DS is entitled to be safe in his own home, in his own room, and he is also entitled to choose his own friends - and not just play with his mum's friends' children.

I think the person to consult about it is your own DS.

I'm friends with women whos kids have various learning difficulties and DXs, and I have to say my DD chooses her own friends - and not one of them has a DX or learning difficulty. I choose a time when to have coffee with my friends (without their kids) and I arrange playdates with kids my DD chooses.

The danger socially is that this boy who has the DX could be excluding other kids from being friends with your DS. We learnt the hard way about this - My DD became the property it seemed of a girl with a DX: and this girl would fly into a rage if my DD talked or played with anyone else, and my DD was excluded as a result for a while until I twigged.
Now I meet up with my friends who have kids with DX separately from their kids, as social monopolization is bullying.

Best of luck with it all - and do what's best for your own family - encourage your friend to seek help if she's at her wits end - it's not your job to have her DS over at yours monopolising and endangering your DS. Meet up with her alone.

You are in a very awkward position. I can understand why you don't want your son to have to be friend with a boy who he might not choose to hang around with otherwise. If I am honest then in your shoes I would try to slow the friendship down. It sound like you have tried to do this (arranging dates away from the children) and it has not worked. I feel sorry for the woman and her son but your own dc has to come first in your equation.

OP: it seems like you need to have a conversation with your friend. Can you sort of rehearse what you might say here where there are parents of other ASD children who might be able to advise? I think many of us have been in situations where our dcs don't necessarily get on with the dcs of our friends but this seems more tricky due to this child's ASD. I feel for both of you, and agree it is very unfair of others to be so critical as it sounds like you're trying to be helpful to your friend.

swanthing that's such a good post, the bit about how the behaviours need to be modelled. Ds can cope fine in social situations as long as there is an adult to hover and tweak or move the situation along. On his own he becomes massively impulsive and will often act out, say incidents from Horrid Henry, which is NOT a good look for us.

swanthing if you don't mind I am going to print that post off to show family members it explains MY ds so well.

I do think exposure makes a huge difference. DS3 (7) has a severely autistic brother. Last year in his class his best friend (of his own choosing) was the very obviously (to me) a child with ASD. He had a full time 1:1 so he was affected to a fairly significant degree. In fact his teacher mused on her surprise at the friendship as apparently the friend wasn't always 'that nice' (her words) to ds3.

DS3 adored him, thought he was hilarious (no doubt bossed him around) and was gutted when he moved areas. I'm sure he flapped and shouted and snatched but ds3 didn't notice. To the point where I didn't even bother telling him he had ASD as he hadn't noticed and wasn't concerned at all by any odd behaviour.

Likewise some of ds2's friends are very very good with ds1. They tend to be the ones that see him regularly. Others, not so great.

If he tends to lose the plot I'd supervise the play more than it's currently being supervised. Or put on the favourite tv show or whatever. You can explain to him that the other boy doesn't find it all that easy to understand x and y.

Ideally, yes the boy's mother would be supervising, but she sounds utterly isolated and that's such a horrible place to be, you can end up being completely ground down and exhausted. I was lucky enough to get ds1 out of the hell that is mainstream (and neurotypical mothers) and into special school when he was 5. One of the best things about that move was having him with his peers, and meeting mothers dealing with the same things as I was. I have every sympathy for anyone having to cope with a child with SN in mainstream. Many have no choice. DS3's class has a number of children with SN, who add hugely to the class imo and lets just say some of the other parents aren't really covering themselves in glory in my eyes.

You know what I found, those parents who told their dc about dd autism and how it affects her were fantastic. The dcthen understood dd and make a real effort with her, we still meet up with those dc from her old mainstream school from time to time. They talk to dd like she is human and are fantastic with her (the mothers and dc). Even now hen we are waiting outside for her transport, children from her old ms school wave and say hello to her, and stop and talk. If not for your friend, you need to educate yourself about autism a d pass it down to your ds. He is afraid as he does not know. Meet in a nutural location like swimming, park etc

Oh and when ds2 was in year 2 he became very good friends with a boy in year 6 who had ASD. God knows how they even hooked up in the first place but they were best buddies for a while,the boy even came to his party. I knew his mother vaguely from groups (although the boys met at school - not through us) and we found it highly amusing.

DS2 and DS3 aren't close to the spectrum or anything themselves. They're both well and truly NT. They, in the way NT kids tend to, have a whole bunch of friends, but I have been pleased to see these friendships develop and see it as a real benefit of having a severely autistic brother (people are always quick to point out the disadvantages, but there are advantages as well - which I have seen repeatedly when they boys have come across people with LD's - even adults).

I'm not thinking he is coming round deliberately to bully my ds. But it does look like that when you spend an evening with the two ds in full view. Also her ds is 7 but is quite big for his age, more like a ten year old. My ds is just turned 6, he's a year younger, and looks more on the smaller side of 6. It looks awful to witness. I can see my ds is uncomfortable and he never talks about playing with this friend. He doesn't want to go round their house when we've arranged the pplaydate round theirs. I haven't thought of just dumping my friend that's why I've tried to startegically see her during school hours and in the park if they boys have to play together. We've tried swimming and tennis where the boys are doing things together, but not with so much contact. My friend somehow gets out of these with some sort of excuse. This year we didn't play tennis at all. I love tennis and swimming, live near the tennis courts and the pool. But as she is not really into it herself, she doesn't pursue these. It would have been something for the boys to do together and I saw that they had enjoyed this.

Well Mabey just continue to meet without your dc if he is unhappy. But you do need to have a talk to him about differences and that he is autistic, not simply a bully

Sorry, my post is a very late. I was replying to pagwatch...

Be aware that your friend might not want to meet without children. I don't know, I lost all my friends who couldn't cope with ds1 (not that he has ever gone for children - hard work to be around for other adults though as he has to be watched all the time, and can't do a lot of activities, and can't do entertaining himself while others gas). My choice, my free time is precious and I prefer to spend it with people who like him (even when he's not there), rather than use my free time to see people just because they can't cope with seeing me with my child.

Tennis sounds a good option if both boys are enjoying it. Do you have to get involved or can you sign the boys up and grab a coffee (even if just from a flask) while watching. Tennis would have been way beyond ds1, but sometimes people come and dog walk or surf with us/him. If people don't like dog walking or the beach we're a bit stuck!

Venus Rising, thank you. Everything you said makes sense to me and it's how I was feeling. for a while I was thinking I'm a maladjusted selfish b.

I thought this in VenusRising's post and I have to say my DD chooses her own friends - and not one of them has a DX or learning difficulty was quite sad really - well I'd be gutted if I had to say that about either ds2 or ds3.

' as social monopolization is bullying.'

Yes, compare kids with ASD and socialization issues to bullies, way to go

I agree saintly. I wasn't bowled over by the milk of human kindness coming from that post

Why don't you explain autism to your son then he can understand his friends behaviour better. As others have said if you set times to meet up at a place where both the boys can play then it will be better all around and you can say no to a meet up this week as they are seeing each other on Saturday etc

Batwing

I am not sure you were replying to my post. I never mentioned bullying - never implied that you had called it bullying.

Do you mean your friend doesn't want to play tennis? I probably wouldn't want to either. Can the boys not do a structured club while you two watch?

On the above lack of milk of human kindness. I invited a disabled girl (learning and physical) to my 7th birthday party, when her mum saw the invite and realised it wasn't from another disabled child she cried and cried and still talks about it 20 years on. I knew she was disabled so if she couldn't do something it was because she couldn't rather than wouldn't. 6 year olds are often very good with disability if explained

I would be a bit non plussed if I thought my child had never ever formed a friendship with a child with any kind of ex or learning difficulties.
I would worry about that tbh - not least because how would they know?

Me too saintly

Ds2 has just opted to be the contact for the ASD children in his mainstream comp. I had reservations as the only NT child with 3 asd sibs, but I am so very proud of him. I know integration worked in my own childhood for me, and I would much prefer ds2 to select a friend with an LD or similar than one of the many spoilt snobby kids the school attracts.

(Sorry OP, no bearing on your situation)

Social monopolisation is bullying?

C'est bolleaux.

how can it be when you don;t understand the rules of socialisation in teh first place? You can't manipulate rules to achieve an end when you don;t get the rules anyway.

Is there anything like this near you OP? Where your son could be with the other child but as part of a specially tailored group http://www.phab.org.uk/ here