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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Nursery issue: non refundable deposit of £1000.

120 replies

kgb777 · 13/10/2012 21:11

Is this a normal practice for a private nursery to retain full £1000 deposit?
In november 2011 we looked for a nursery for our 2 y.o daughter and found an afternoon place available from September 2012 in Noting Hill, London.
They have asked for £1000 deposit to secure the place and to sign terms and cons. We have sent the cheque during the same month. Unfortunately in June 2012 we had to move and our new home is far away from the nursery in Noting-Hill. On 1st July we notified the nursery that we wont require the place any longer and that our daughter is not going to start with them from September 2012.
I understand that there are some admin fees to be covered but i hoped that we will be able to recover at least some money from the original £1000 deposit.
Turns out this is not the case and ' no longer kind and friendly' nursery manager advised me that i have signed terms and cons, where i have agreed for full £1000 to remain with the nursery....
Please can someone tell me if you had a similar experience as £1000 is a lot of money for our family.
thank you

OP posts:
TuttoRhino · 13/10/2012 21:36

Woah. I would second the opinions about seeking legal advice about whether that constitutes an unfair term in the T&Cs.

I was only liable for £50 if I had chosen not to take up my daughter's space at nursery.

SuzysZoo · 13/10/2012 21:37

ooo - look what I found from a solicitor's website..........

A Lincolnshire County Court case earlier this year, when a judge ordered a nursery operator to repay a deposit to parents who cancelled a nursery place that they had secured for their child, highlights concerns in the sector about when an operator can treat a deposit as 'non-refundable'.

It is always difficult to comment on a specific case that is not reported in full so the comments in this article are of a general nature. However they set out the legal position and are intended to provide guidance to the main pitfalls.

It is important to understand that an operator can retain a deposit paid by parents to secure a nursery place but there must be a contract between the operator and the parents that clarifies the non-refundable nature of the deposit and the contract must comply with certain legal requirements.

A contract does not, of course, need to be in writing, but an unwritten contract is always open to dispute as there is no clear evidence of what was agreed. Therefore, if you want to be able to treat a deposit as non-refundable you need to have written terms signed by both you and the parents, which clarify that the deposit is not refundable. Taking a deposit without this is always open to an argument about the terms on which the money was paid over. Even if you argue that your staff always explain that a deposit is not refundable, it is up to you to prove that. That is generally very hard to do.

However even if you have a written contract, you can only enforce a clause which states that a deposit is not refundable if you can show that it complies with the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations. These Regulations are designed to protect 'the consumer' which, for nurseries, means parents. Unfair terms are those in your contract with parents that give you an unfair advantage over the parent. Unfortunately, terms that may appear to be perfectly reasonable to you (and to protect your interests) may be unfair under the Regulations.

It is clear from the guidance to the Regulations issued by the Office of Fair Trading (OFT) that a genuine deposit, (like a reservation fee paid to secure a nursery place) can be kept by the operator as payment for the reservation but only if it is a small amount. It is a matter of judgment as to what amount is acceptable but if the deposit is of such a size that it could be regarded as an excessive payment to stop the parents from cancelling the nursery place then it may be a disguised penalty and won't be enforceable.

The Unfair Terms Regulations don't just apply to deposits. There are various aspects of contracts between nursery operators and parents that may fall to be assessed under the Regulations. It is a requirement that terms in contracts with consumers must be clear, easy to read and avoid jargon but the overriding principle is that the terms must be fair to the consumer, both in their content and the way they are brought to the consumer's attention.

The Regulations are enforced by the OFT, which can order unfair terms to be altered and suspend use of the contract until this is done. That can involve significant management time while it is resolved and potential adverse publicity as the OFT can (and does) publicise those cases where changes have been required.

LeeCoakley · 13/10/2012 21:38

I suppose as well that July isn't a full term's notice. If you had told them in April/May then maybe you would have got it back. They may have had difficulty filling the place at such short notice as most people would have sorted places for September by then.

AnnaLiza · 13/10/2012 21:39

Hang on, didn't you say that they had an "afternoon" space available? So not full time? Well then how the hell did they justify £1,000 - surely their part time afternoon session can't be £1k?? Hmm

DowagersHump · 13/10/2012 21:42

This reply has been deleted

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Merinda · 13/10/2012 21:42

Many nurseries in London charge pretty much the same fee whether you go full-time or part-time. A place is a place, apparently, and costs do not change (building, utilities, wages etc)

Merinda · 13/10/2012 21:43

£1k a month is not too bad, actually. One next to where I live charges £1,500...

GhostShip · 13/10/2012 21:44

What the hell?! I mean, I know I'm a bit commun but £1000?! for a nursery?!

itsatrap · 13/10/2012 21:47

I could understand it more if you left mid-term and they were subsequently unable to fill the place immediately. As it was some time before start of term they would have filled the place? Could you ask them if this is the case? May be a good window to negotiate at least some of the deposit back?

GhostShip · 13/10/2012 21:48

£1k a month is not too bad, actually. One next to where I live charges £1,500...

faints

My local, and very good nursery is only 130 a week

Mintyy · 13/10/2012 21:48

Its a fantastic ticket to free money for these nurseries. Of course they have a waiting list as long as your arm and beyond. They are not going to be missing out because your child cannot take up their place. The sum total of what it is going to cost them is the phone call to the next person down on their list ...

kgb777 · 13/10/2012 21:49

thank you all, i will see what i can do. I just hope that no one else will ever get trapped like this and will read and question(!) every line before signing.
They were all so pleasant when we met them and the fact that this is a NURSERY and not WONGA Cash loans institution made me let my guard down.

Unfortunately we could not have known any earlier about the move as our flat was completely flooded by the apartment above us so we had an emergency re-location to a cheaper area... I am not having a great year I think.:)

OP posts:
prettybird · 13/10/2012 21:52

I would ring the nursery anonymously and ask if they have any places available?

No?

Then then the Ts &Cs are not reasonable as they haven't suffered loss. At most, they should be able to charge "reasonable" costs for having had to find someone else and if there was any gaps in the sessions they were able to charge for.

stella1w · 13/10/2012 21:55

I view of the post upthread about unfair terms, i wd get some free initial advice from a solicitor, the write a letter asking them to prove they have suffered loss ie. Been unable to fill the place (unlikely), then take them to small claims court.

kgb777 · 13/10/2012 22:10

Thank you!

OP posts:
edwinbear · 13/10/2012 22:30

DD and DS both go to nursery in Canary Wharf. The deal with them is that when they offer you a place, you pay 1 months fees to secure it, (£1,400 for a 4 day week), which is non refundable. So if you don't subsequently take up the place you lose it. To be honest I thought this was fairly standard practice and they did make it very clear both times they have offered us places.

DowagersHump · 13/10/2012 22:35

£1,400 for a 4 day week x 2? Bloody hell Shock

Wouldn't it be cheaper for you to have a nanny?

Toombs · 13/10/2012 22:37

You didn't mention that it was as a result of a domestic emergency, make a claim on your insurance company. It was a loss suffered as a direct consequence of the flooding.

Aboutlastnight · 13/10/2012 22:39

Bloody hell -that's piracy op.

edwinbear · 13/10/2012 22:40

It may be, but I think only marginally, I would need someone to work 6.30am - 6.30pm and by the time we've paid employers NI I don't think there would be much in it. It is an absolute joke and I wouldn't mind so much if they were an amazing nursery. They are fine, don't get me wrong, but only fine.

Geordieminx · 13/10/2012 22:41

£1400 each for a 4 day week????

Fuck me.

Ds started school last month, but before that I paid £470 for a full month 8-6. Granted I live in the third world Scotland but jeez, what's the point in working if you are paying £3k a month in fees??!!

edwinbear · 13/10/2012 22:46

£1,400 for DD as she is under 2, then DS I think is £1,200 as he is over 2. But without wanting to hijack the thread, DS cannot even have his 15 hrs free nursery entitlement there, as the nursery don't take part in the scheme. Daylight robbery, it really is. But I work in investment banking so I am fortunate that it is still, just about, worth my while working and paying the fees. And nursery are well aware that most people working in CW are in the same situation and are taking maximum advantage.

DowagersHump · 13/10/2012 22:47

I think I paid about £900 for 3 days back in the day. And yeah, it was okay but not blindingly good. And that's why I moved DS to a CM - much cheaper and better

Hotcoffeeisamemory · 13/10/2012 22:48

Well I have fainted clear away.

Which isn't helpful.

DowagersHump · 13/10/2012 22:49

Sorry, really going off on a total tangent now! As you were Blush