Piano playing

[CruCru]

How late is too late to play your piano? I ask because my new neighbour is getting on my nerves a bit. He plays beautifully - concert pianist stuff - but sometimes on and off from 6pm until after 11.

We can't hear it in the bedrooms. But when I'm pottering about its starting to grate. Not because it's bad - its great - but because it's there.

We live in a terraced house but usually can hear very little. The people before him had a daughter who would scream. They were very apologetic but there was no need because we could barely hear her.

I'm a bit reluctant to whinge at him partly because another neighbour has just had a go at him about some scaffolding which encroaches a bit onto our properties. This other guy was trying to get me to say that I was upset about it but I said as long as it doesn't cause damage and doesn't block access I'm not that bothered. It's only for a fortnight. Basically I now don't want to speak with him about the piano because I don't want him to think we're ganging up on him.

The piano neighbour is a very young guy (early twenties) whose granny has bought him a house. I think the scaffolding was just him not realising that it would be a nuisance to the neighbours. But the piano is pissing me off.

At what point would you pop round?

I'm a professional musician and I agree about 9-9. I also think it's reasonable to ask him to limit it to 4 hours a day or get a digital piano, or a soundproofed practice cabin (my husband, a saxophonist, has one of these). If you're a musician who lives in a terrace or semi, you have to consider your neighbours.

My dad is convinced the practice pedal gives him carte blanche to play until midnight but it's a load of crap, you can still hear it through all the walls in his house!

But really, how is, not before 9 am practical? Especially if you work or have school age kids? My main instrument is the harp so I guess the sound of that isn't generally loud or offensive anyway....

We've had no piano this evening. It's been nice to have a break from it.

As long as you're nice about it I can't see there being a problem with you asking him and I can see how it would be irritating but you might not have a leg to stand on because isnt there some sort of rule/law thingy that you can make noise from 11am to 11pm??

If you can't hear it upstairs it can't be that loud? and as another poster said , what difference does it make what time he practises if it's not disturbing your sleep.So I think YABU.If you want no sounds from your neighbours buy a detached house in the middle of nowhere- or earplugs

It does matter. You shouldn't have to have constant background noise in your house when it's avoidable. Suspect people who downplay this may not have experienced the misery of being constantly aware of the noise, and if it's not there, wondering when it's going to start again. Does your head in.

I think 10pm is a reasonable time. Hopefully now that you've mentioned it he'll at least use the dampening pedal (or whatever it's called) a bit more often!

I do think he should invest in a digi keyboard for practicing 'after hours' even though I very much agree it's not the same at all as the real thing, sometimes you have to compromise.

I had an organ in our house growing up, I used to play it badly as loud as it would go, I'd get lost in it... until I came home from school one day and found my dad had removed the plug. I thought I was entertaining the world!! I was actually just pissing everyone off. We found our compromise, headphones in the week, I could play as loud as I wanted between 11am and 1pm on a Sunday (because the church bells were also irritatingly loud at that time too).

Oh God. I have just about had enough. It's like he has picked particularly noisy pieces to play. When it gets to 11 I'll go round. I'll mention the practice pedal. And will try not to get too sharp.

I think 9pm - he could get a keyboard with earphones or move to a detached house - he is totally unreasonable!

Socharlotte ' equally if you have a loud hobby e.g. piano/drums etc or like loud music/parties then go and buy a detached house - why should anyone put up with it!

Areallmen - no you cannot just make any noise till 11pm that is a myth - there are more restrictions after 11 pm but before if you are causing statutory nuisance then you can still be requested by environmental health to keep noise down.

He could have a practice pedal fitted to the piano rather than getting a digital one. Then you wouldn't hear it.

OMG 11pm is far too late - haven't you had a word yet with him OP?

Thanks all. I think what I'll do is go round and offer to pay for a practice pedal to be fitted. That will be neighbourly.

Nooooooooooooo! Pay for a practice pedal? It's not up to you to make sure he plays quietly! He needs to sort it out. Just go and have a chat and tell him he probably doesn't realise how loud it is but it's making the house shake!

Don't offer to pay for a practice pedal! You have no idea how much they cost, and you're making this into your problem, not his.
He really can't play that late.
After 9,9.30,10 he has to stop, or switch to a digital.

Too right! This is his problem. And iirc pp only dampen the noise a bit - he could still take it that its ok to play at stupid o'clock!

It's fair enough to ask him not to play the piano afte x time, as long as you are prepared not to have the TV on, or the radio, or your i-pod or make any noise that might transfer through to his house.
Otherwise YABU.
As you say, it's not an unpleasant sound - he's not playing the drums or doing DIY or blasting out motorhead at some colossol volume, and there are parts of your house where you can't hear it. It's just life in a terrace or semi. You will always hear your neighbours. I can come up with a list of dozens of things I'd rather not hear than that though.

with a joint wall, I think he is unreasonable to play the piano so late when the sound travels to your home. I would say till 9 is generally acceptable but not later than that. There are a few things he can do to reduce the sound such as placing something to absorb sound between the piano and the wall (I am not sure what would work perhaps polystyrene), placing a small rug under the piano etc if it rests on wooden floorboards.

I know it is unpleasant to have to do it but I think you need to discuss the problem with him. Until you speak to him about it, nothing will change. Obviously he already has a piano which is presumably acoustic so he may not wish to buy a digital one now. If you are lucky, he has a digital and will be amenable to using the headphones, turning down the volume.

IMHO, YANBU if you are not bothering them in any way shape or form, and I can see that his playing will get annoying after a while. When I was small my neighbour played the piano, against my bedroom wall and it used to lull me to sleep. So we didn't have to complain. I have played many instruments over the years, but parents have mostly had detached houses so we didn't bother anyone but my Mum, on occasion. Fast forward a few years and DH is a musician (saxophone, guitar, bass, flute, clarinet etc etc) and is VERY aware of his noise and VERY conscious of upsetting neighbours, therefore keeps practice between sensible hours. Certainly not past 9pm. We are moving to a terraced house soon and because the house is small he is going to build a sound proofed music room (uber man shed) at the bottom of the garden. It's a question of striking balance with neighbours in my opinion. You can't stop him playing his piano full stop, but he should be more considerate. Be warned though, we got into rows with old neighbours over my "loud" CD player many years ago (it wasn't that loud - they were just pedantic) but they had no idea how annoying their foot steps above us, screaming arguments and washing machine above our TV were (they would do washing late at night too - very irritating). We didn't speak, ignored each other in communal areas, there was no cooperation (not helpful with a huge leak from their flat into ours through a light socket) and no neighbourly love and it was horrible. So I think just be as diplomatic as possible, perhaps say, "we do love your playing but could you stop at 9pm, please, so that we can have an evening", try and be tolerant of the noise (would you be more tolerant of a screaming baby, parties, loud CDs, barking dogs, loud TV etc etc?) but then you have to live by the rules you set and make sure you don't have a loud tv, loud music, noisy kids at unreasonable times, washing machines on at unsociable hours etc. Because he would be well within his rights to come and complain otherwise. HTH.

All right, I won't offer to pay for one. Perhaps I'll ask if it's okay to pop round on Monday evening (say) and have a word then.

What should I say? Something along the lines of we think the music is played well but we're finding it ever so intrusive. I thought I'd have a word now as I don't much like coming round late at night and no one much wants to fall out with their neighbours. I'd be really grateful if it could stop at 9pm so we get some time downstairs without it.

Is that okay?

No, I'm pretty sure that we make very little noise. The people before used to say how quiet we are.

I think being honest and having a friendly, adult to adult, non-parenty chat is the best thing to do. Remember he's young and learning, so he'll probably be mortified that he has upset so many neighbours already. He sounds like a nice, bright young man and I expect he'll be really polite and rational about the situation. Best to address it now rather than let it fester for ages and then get really angry! Maybe if his Gran bought him a house, he comes from a wealthy family and has only lived in detached houses where his music was encouraged? University's have soundproofed practice rooms, so maybe he hasn't been in this situation before. So this could be a valuable lesson in getting along with neighbours in a terraced property. Sadly, I learnt the hard way because my the neighbours to my first flat when I was 24 were so bloody passive aggressive and pedantic and didn't bother to say anything or even leave me a note for a year to the point where they seethed with anger and then had an outburst one day when I was on my own, which was really scary. I did of course apologise, left a note with my telephone numbers on and a bottle of wine to say how sorry I was for being a PITA, even though when I checked the level of my CD player with my parents / friends no-one could see what the problem was. Anyway, that's a big aside. I would have been grateful if they had said something early on, so I could have invested in some wireless headphones or known what they found acceptable to be able to compromise IYSWIM?

On a separate note, it will also give him an incentive to buy himself a naice detached house once he's a fully trained lawyer on a fat wage :) You may be doing him a massive favour to accelerate up the ladder in his profession

Hey princesschick - that's what I'm thinking. I really don't want to be the mad bitch who suddenly snaps. And I think you're right, he probably doesn't realise how noisy the piano is in my house.

Please may we swap neighbours? Every night I hear the people upstairs fight and cry afterwards, and the man downstairs makes odd sounds all evening (lion noises and occasional shouts of "You can't hear me, you fuckers") until he's ready to turn on his surround-sound at 4.30am. There's also somebody who plays loud electric guitar very badly.

I thoroughly dislike noise pollution, and yet I've just got used to our surroundings by deliberately NOT fixating on them and instead reminding myself that 1) we probably make more noise than I realise; 2) we may have children in some point, who will definitely make more noise over the years than we expect (especially as babies and teenagers); 3) at some point in the future I may want to play my guitar plugged in or buy a small parrot, either of which will definitely involve a bit of reasonable tolerance from my neighbours.

I think it's fine to pop round and ask him to keep it down at times when you want to do something specific which the piano noise interferes with (e.g. watch a film in silence), but the level of quiet you're expecting is incompatible with living in a terrace. Peaceful relationships between neighbours relies on goodwill and there may come a time when you need him to be tolerant of your background noise, especially as your son gets older. The very most I'd do is show him the article about digital pianos and ask if he'd consider doing his evening practice on one of those in due course, but in your position I really wouldn't expect him to buy one - he may be a trainee lawyer, but I doubt he's as financially comfortable as people assume at that age.