to think that there are people who choose to live a life on benefits?

[autumnlights12]

the recent threads about George Osbourne made me wonder..
A high number of posters say that people don't choose to live like that, they stumble into it, hate it, what a miserable existence it is, nobody would ever choose it etc..
but if you have two or three children through choice, whilst at the same time having no job to provide for them, or if you turn down the job at the local factory (as I know someone who did) because it pays £7.50 an hour and a full time job there doesn't give you the same unemployment rights and benefits, isn't that choosing to live a life on benefits? Or being trapped on benefits? I'm not talking about people who can't work, disabled people, ill people, women dumped by feckless ex and left to fend for herself etc.. of course they should be protected.
I was watching 999 What's Your Emergency and I know that area. And I know people like that exist. And it's often a second, third generation who have never worked a day in their life, even during times when work was freely available. In the town I live, we have numerous Eastern European immigrants who all seem to be working, but mostly in low paid work the locals wont do
What say you?

wannabe I don't for a minute think that genuine claimants are being penalised because some people are frauding - they are being penalised because govts think that being poor is a crime. I would include the so-called Labour party in that - they weren't quite as bastardy as the tories while they were in power but Milliband is hardly a socialist.

Growlithe I think Brycie means that she doesn't think the hereditary millionaires in the Cabinet aren't really laughing at people like her, benefit-bashing and doing their dirty work for them. Deluded, as I say.

Osborne is long-term unemployed anyway - has the bugger ever had a job before the one he's got now?

are really laughing. Damn, I am tired.

Wallison didn't Gideon have a job at Selfridges folding towels or something?

Grow: "They are actually laughing at you you know"
Me: "I don't think so"

Wallison: I think there's been some talk of generational claiming, with much of it about the prospects of it. There's been more talk of different kinds of claiming, couples living apart deliberately and so on. There will only ever be real statistics for fraud. There can never be hard statistics for this.

Wallison, when documented fact is treated as opinion, you know you are wasting information on a fool :( Thank you for the Rowntree reference; I was racking my brains for that earlier today!

No hard statistics, Brycie? So your argument is just based on anedote and rumour then? Thought so.

The name-calling and hostility are interesting too, possibly a symptom of frustration?

Luckily I can't possibly fall victim to that as I know there would be no hope of changing minds here and I knew that a long time ago!

Goodnight.

Night!

Oh I x posted. Communist: you go ahead and deny it. It's all the same to me, and I look forward to reading all those posts where you tell people they're lying. Because, I guess, you really do know more about their lives than they do.

But they are.

Atleast thats how its being portrayed.

My DP has worked since he was still at school. Hes qualified in an area that wont employ people until they are over 25. Hes 24.

He lost his job in august. I am pregnant. When I got pregnant he had a 3 year contract which meant nothing in the end.

We are now seriously struggling on benefit. The most luxurious thing we have is broadband. We dont even have curtains. Im due in 3 weeks and we cant afford a pram or moses basket.

Now we are facing losing our HB too.

We have both paid taxes and NI. But where has it got us? We are now branded scroungers.

No name-calling here, but I do think you are deluded. Shiny Dave loves to call people 'frustrated' too, hm? Nighty-night.

Communist I don't think he was paid for it so does it really count as a job? Similarly, I believe that nice Mr Cameron was long-term unemployed before he got the job of running the country. Maybe they are both just shining examples of Workfare or whatever.

Goodnight Brycie You just keep respecting the establishment, just like your grandad did. Damn those workshy fops who scrounge off the likes of you and me and those darn lefties who allow it.

wannabe I am so sorry to hear of your situation - it must be endlessly worrying for you. Do they still do the maternity grant? You used to be able to get £500 towards the cost of expenses of a new baby - at least you could until quite recently. Please try not to worry - I know that you want everything to be perfect for your little one but really they need love more than anything else (well, that and nappies ...) which I am sure you will provide in abundance. All the best for you as you prepare for the birth! I had fuck all when I had my son and he's kind of turning out alright (mostly!).

Sorry - one more post to Wannabe. I don't brand you a scrounger. Quite apart from the paying in. In what way are you taking the mickey? You're not in any way taking the mickey. Don't be misguided into thinking that because what I can only call "mickey taking" is disliked and disapproved of, then so is all claiming. There WILL be people who want you to think that way, in order to stoke resentment, fear and anger, but it's not true. By the way, are you sure you're getting everything due to you? Contribution based and so on?

Fair point, Wallison. I wouldn't trust either of them to fold my towels.

wannabedomesticgoddess I am sorry you are having a tough time. You get people on here talking all tough and posturing, bet they would change their tune sharpish if such misfortune befell them or their families. I hope things get better for you v soon.

Argh I really must go. Usual: many people losing their jobs are angered by how little their contributions get them in return. That is firing resentment against groups of people who have not contributed at all. Just with reference to your earlier points about the groups of people who would/would not vote Tory.

Thank you all. My point is, its a blanket sweep of all claimants. The HB is anyway.

The £500 grant we are eligable for. Only if the baby is due after 29th Oct. Im due on 2nd Nov. But they are holding back on payment. We think its because they think they can get out of paying it if it comes early.

Honestly, we get by on so little. It just infuriates me that its cut cut cut to welfare. But no actual policies on how to get out of the recession. Decreasing the deficit is important, but is it necessary to make the poor starving and homeless in the process?

Of course it's not necessary - I don't believe at all that these cuts are anything to do with the recession - they are ideological. And they are spending more now than they were before because so many people are unemployed, so it's blatantly not even working in the terms they (inaccurately) frame the debate.

wannabie is obviously struggling, is anyone from the richer quadrant feeling the pinch? Are we all in this together?

It feels to me like George fucked up spectacularly. Borrowing is up. Unemployment is uo.

So instead of saying "yes I am crap" hes turning it all around and blaming the poor people to deflect from his failings.

Wannabee

So sorry for your situation. You will be fine and a good mum, kids need love and affection. Do try for maternity Grant, the same happened to us and 20+ years later and 3 dc later we are fine,
"eh we didn't have a pot to piss in back then" etc.. I wish you luck, it isn't a bed of roses but if we could do it anybody can. FWIW anybody who thinks of you as a scrounger needs to look at themself. Oh and we do have a pot now.