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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to be increasingly infuriated by the issue of same sex marriage with BOTH sides?

400 replies

dopishe · 10/10/2012 08:45

The whole thing is getting on my nerves now. And I mean both sides of the debate, too. The against who are saying it will wreck society-how exactly? Those who say that it will strengthen relationships of gay people=pull the other one!
As far as I am concerned, civil partnerships and marriage provide equality of financial and legal rights and, whichever a person has, it is up to THEM to make it (relationship) work and cp's and marriage are just titles. So just leave things as they are.

I am absolutely infuriated by The tory party using this issue as pure gesture politics when they do not give a stuff about people's lives and the REALLY important issues like the economy and jobs and things that really matter.

Not saying labour wouldn't be any different, but people, does it matter enough to alter the status quo?

OP posts:
CrikeyOHare · 11/10/2012 21:46

Quirrel No offence taken :)

So, you're making a distinction between religious marriage & the secular version?

I agree with you. I do too. Individual churches can do whatever they like - it's their little club, their rules I suppose.

But as a straight woman, I can go to a registry office and get married. My younger, gay brother can only have a civil partnership ceremony. Both of us are atheists, and neither give two hoots what any church has to say or think.

We should either both be able to get married, or both having civil partnerships. Or even choose between the two.

But the government should be making no distinction whatsoever between the ceremony it performs for me, and the one it does for my brother. Because our sexuality is none of the governments bloody business.

Grin
MaryZed · 11/10/2012 21:47

xposted mrspopov - that is so unfair.

And unfair on your dd who will have to pay horrendous tax on anything you leave her after death, as technically she is not related to you.

It is wrong.

CrikeyOHare · 11/10/2012 21:47

Awful grammar AGAIN! Sorry Blush.

MaryZed · 11/10/2012 21:48

Good summary, Crikey.

ivykaty44 · 11/10/2012 21:48

I think that legal marriage should be taken away from any type of service in a religious house of any type.

If you want to be legally married then you have to go to the register office and get a registrar to marry you legally - then if you wish to have a religious ceromony then you go to whichever religious place you wish and have the marriage there - only it is a religious marriage and not a legal one.

taking the legality out of the religious marriage and only have a legal marriage as a civil document would make everyone the same, everyone could choose whether they want another service etc and being religious it will not matter whether it is a legal marriage by the church or whoever as it will be there Gods marriage.

mrspopov · 11/10/2012 21:53

I know, thanks MaryZed. Law has since changed and I know people who then went back and re-apopted so both parents are on the cert. However me and DD's other mum have since split (all v amicable) so not sure I can do that now.

It's OK, I'll spend it all [grins]

CrikeyOHare · 11/10/2012 21:53

Mary Then I think the whole issue must be looked at and overhauled - to reflect the way our modern society works. Mrspopov's situation is a good example of where it's going wrong :(

MaryZed · 11/10/2012 21:54

Yes, very simple, very clear.

And each church could decide Hmm who they want to marry - based on gender, previous marital status and how bigoted the priest/vicar/rabbi/whoever is.

mrspopov · 11/10/2012 21:55

Hear, hear ivykaty44, the perfect solution, which is what the French have and was mentioned here earlier.

quirrelquarrel · 11/10/2012 21:55

silly government with their silly rules Smile
I guess we'll just have to agree to differ though! There has to be difference between government sanctioned church marriage and government sanctioned civil partnership.
I've been called a homophobe for not being all for gay marriage. They would never say that it they knew I don't much like men. People don't really look past the buzzwords.

CrikeyOHare · 11/10/2012 21:58

Totally agree with you, IvyKaty. If I ever get married, I want a humanist celebration. This means a trip to the registry office first (or get one to come out to a hotel or whatever) followed by the humanist celebration, which can pretty much be whatever we want.

Why can't the various religions do this too? I believe that's what happens in France.

Lottapianos · 11/10/2012 22:01

'And the cp could be man/woman, man/man, woman/woman, friend/friend - no preconceptions about love/sex/children, just mutual respect and a willingness to work together as a couple (sexual or platonic, it doesn't matter).

With of course all the legal and financial benefits accorded to marriages'

It's a no brainer MaryZed - why can't the government just flaming sort it??? Confused

CrikeyOHare · 11/10/2012 22:02

x-posted with everyone else.

Happy to agree to differ, Quirrel :)

ivykaty44 · 11/10/2012 22:11

And each church could decide who they want to marry - based on gender, previous marital status and how bigoted the priest/vicar/rabbi/whoever is.

why would people want to be married by a priest/rabbi/whoever that is

bigoted?

Plus it wouldn't be a marriage in the sense that it is now it would be a gathering with a ritual being conducted.

MaryZed · 11/10/2012 22:20

Yep, ivykaty. A gathering with a bit of ritual. Probably like most baptisms these days.

But it would be interesting to see how many people actually went to the bother of being "married" in church if they had to to the civil bit beforehand. It would really sort out the people who want a religious marriage from those who just want the white dress, aisle, hymns and organ music.

ivykaty44 · 11/10/2012 22:32

MaryZed - since you can now get married in a lot of hotels, and other places that have a licence and the registrar just turns up to do the legal bit, church wedding numbers have fallen. So I doubt that they would suffer to much.

You would just do the register office bit on a weekday before your big wedding ritual on a Saturday

that's if that is what you want to do.

MaryZed · 11/10/2012 22:37

That hasn't really happened her (Ireland) yet, I suppose. I'm not entirely sure, but I don't think you can get married outside of a church or an incredibly dreary registry office. Or if you can, it's only in the last little while.

YouMayLogOut · 11/10/2012 22:50

Gay40 Jesus did say we must "obey the law" but this only means if it does not conflict with God's law. God's law is that we should love one another. And if gay marriage comes under that heading, then the law of the land is wrong.

Devora · 11/10/2012 23:09

dopishe, are you helcarmer?

LaydeeC · 11/10/2012 23:20

I have jumped in after only having read up to page 7 but there are a couple of things that are bothering me about Lilka's posts in that there does NOT have to be a registrar present for marriages that take place in religious buildings other than CofE. Religious buildings can appoint Authorised Persons (they are not registrars) to carry out the 'legal' role that a registrar would carry out. This applies to mosques, catholic churches, kingdom halls etc. The AP has responsibility for the register and certificates for their religious building. The religious building also has to be licensed for marriages and not all are (even if they are registered for worship).
The only time a registrar would attend a marriage that takes place is if there is no appointed AP. Smile
Apologies if things have moved on and it has been explained already.

LaydeeC · 11/10/2012 23:24

Oh, and MaryZed, you have said a lot of things I agree with re CPs and Marriage. But to say that register offices are dreary is your opinion only. And just a bit insulting to everyone that chooses to use them for their big day. Gay or straight.

MaryZed · 11/10/2012 23:32

No, seriously LaydeeC, in Ireland registry offices are dreary. Or at least they were. I suspect they have tidied themselves up in the last few years.

I remember a friend of mine being in floods of tears as she didn't want to get married in a church and her alternative was the only registry office in Dublin at the time.

I hope my children will be able to get married (or have cp's or whatever they are called then) in hotels and other places that aren't churches, if that is their wish.

LaydeeC · 11/10/2012 23:46

Smile I don't know about Ireland (although most of my family are Irish) as the only weddings I have attended there were in churches (no surprise!). I'm perhaps being a bit sensitive as I do get tired of hearing about 'rushed', 'one in, one out', 'conveyor belt' ceremonies that supposedly take place in second rate register offices. As a registrar, we make sure that our ceremonies are as lovely as they can be and always try to make the couple feel like they are the only couple we are going to see that day.

Devora · 12/10/2012 00:06

Well, some registry offices are lovely and some are, um, dreary. (Lewisham registry office, anyone?)

But the registrars' warmth and charm always makes up for it Smile [buttering up LaydeeC emoticon]

EmpressOfTheSevenScreams · 12/10/2012 00:14

We had our civil partnership in Islington's registry office and the registrar was lovely. She even let DD (5 at time) sign the book too.

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