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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To start a thread about the new uc and how it affects entitlement to tax credit.

200 replies

morethanpotatoprints · 09/10/2012 22:23

Just as the title suggests.

How many people actually know how this will affect their personal circumstances?
Millions of workers will be affected and so many people will lose out.
This is not welfare cuts for the unemployed its anybody not working for 35 hours earning the minimum wage.

OP posts:
merrymouse · 10/10/2012 00:21

If you wanted to become a barrister and your parents invited some contacts to the country for a shooting weekend, could that count towards your 35 hours?

aufaniae · 10/10/2012 00:23

"where are all these jobs" Where indeed.

I can see nothing about job creation. The idea seems to be that if we are all sufficiently "incentivised" to find work (by threatening us with poverty and potentially homelessness) then we will find work.

The figures just don't add up as there simply aren't enough jobs to go round.

These rules will undoubtably lead to a rise in people working off-the-cards.

Original poster
morethanpotatoprints · 10/10/2012 00:30

aufaniae

I think self employed will deal in cash and then nobody can say what week the money was earned. Hence giving them a bit of leway on the min wage criteria. Also equip may be hired or bought on finance then only small amounts taken from profit each week. I'm sure there are several ways round this, loopholes that aren't breaking any laws. I'm sure accountants and financial advisors are working on it now.

OP posts:
Original poster
morethanpotatoprints · 10/10/2012 00:32

Merrymouse
You'd be better trying to find a non existant job than try and set up a business.We're all doomed

OP posts:
Original poster
morethanpotatoprints · 10/10/2012 00:35

Merrymouse
re country shooting weekend.

I reckon you could claim all 35 hours. Mostly for time spent saying Ok yah!

OP posts:
FrothyOM · 10/10/2012 06:25

Marking place

pumpkinsweetie · 10/10/2012 06:40

Yanbu- marking place.
Very worried for my family's future!

pumpkinsweetie · 10/10/2012 06:41

aufanie Definetly agree on a protest!

sashh · 10/10/2012 07:02

I was listening to the radio yesterday.

Apparently the majority of people on benfit are in work, the second biggest group are pensioners.

HappyMummyOfOne · 10/10/2012 07:52

It does have some good elements though and tax credits did encourage people to reduce their hours to the bare minimum or to let the state pay for one parent to stay home.

If genuine self employed, then nothing to fear. If self employed and not making much (which thousands do to avoid JSA checks) then the new system will ensure the person takes responsibility if their SE doesnt support them.

Anything has to be better than the system we have now that actively encourages people to work as little as possible yet have the luxury of top ups. Its not too much to expect an adult to work 35 hours a week and childcare is more widely available than ever.

Leithlurker · 10/10/2012 08:35

What does genuine self employed mean Happy? It is those that are genuinely self employed like child minders who have most to fear. As unemployment grows, part time work becomes more scarce, less money about means less to pay childminders. So how would these genuinely employed people get round the fact that they will not earn enough to qualify for UC, and then be at risk from sanctions?

domesticgodless · 10/10/2012 08:43

Universal Jobmatch will soon take away the opportunity to either work for yourself building a business or to find a job suitable to your skills.

It does what it says. You will be matched with vacancies and you can bet you there will be sanctions for non-application.

It looks voluntary atm but it won't be.

www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/universal-jobmatch-faqs.pdf

Universal Credit is an utter disaster waiting to happen. It mandates online access for all jobseekers (?! local libraries anyone? now closed?) and proof of a full working week for anyone not earning enough including the self-employed.

It will be an utter administrative nightmare for both unemployed and government. People are not going to know what has hit them. It is fully online by 2014, supposedly.

Leithlurker · 10/10/2012 08:44

Lets also unpack your first statement shall we Happy.
People are being payed at such a small hourly rate, that they need a top up from the government. Would it be then that we could turn this round and ask why companies are being subsidised by the tax payer?

So then you go on to allege that having secured enough to live on from both employer and state, people work only the hours that they need to or the hours that suits them. As opposed to what, working for the sake of working/ Working instead of having a family life, choosing to be a good parent, member of society rather than just a worker? Is it not the dream of those in the city that they make their pile, and then retire early? If they can choose to earn enough and then be fully fulfilled people, then the choice should be available to everyone even if they go about achieving it in a different way

domesticgodless · 10/10/2012 08:45

Leithlurker if they are deemed to be not earning enough/ not working enough hours they will be made to:

attend work-focused interviews and courses
use Universal Jobmatch and apply for 'matched' vacancies
do workfare in the remaining hours of their week

This will include single parents will a child over 5 years old (!! good luck picking them up from school) and those assessed as capable of 'work related activity' on employment and support allowance. Oh, and those whom Atos has miraculously cured of disability and long term sickness.

Like I said, people are not going to know what has hit them. Expect rioting to make the poll tax disturbances look like a beach holiday in Benidorm.

domesticgodless · 10/10/2012 08:46

oh and here's another doozy: The online monitoring system has already been outsourced to India!!!

Leithlurker · 10/10/2012 08:52

I think we were saying the same thing domestic, perhaps the only difference being I was inviting Happy to think about the tripe she is talking.

Thank you for the added detail domestic, it only adds to the reasons that people will be swept away by the need to service this monster of officialdom, rather than getting on with working.

pumpkinsweetie · 10/10/2012 08:58

Happy You have to work atleast 24hrs to get Tax Credits-how is that the bare mininium?
Try getting 35hrs round here-those jobs are like goldust!

CagneyNLacey · 10/10/2012 09:04

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

girlylala0807 · 10/10/2012 09:06

I just found this online. Im not sure if it is correct. But I put figures in and it seems as a lone parent working 18 hours im going to be slightly better off. It may be wrong. I may be wrong but I really dont understand whats happening.

policyinpractice.co.uk/universal-credit/universal-credit-calculator/

girlylala0807 · 10/10/2012 09:09

Ah. Ive just seen this includes child support for single parents. I guess they are working on the theory nrp all pay towards their children. But you can remove it from the calculation/

fluffyraggies · 10/10/2012 09:10

I'm just picturing the scene when all these 'people who need help getting a job' are marched into the job center - only to be told "Oh! Sorry Miss/Mr X, there aren't actually any jobs!" .......

then what happens?

This happened to my eldest on the wonderful workfare system in the summer. She found her own job in the end. Without 'help'. Once she'd finished her enforced 6 weeks of floor sweeping in the local chemist Hmm

Anyway - i just wanted to add another - where the hell are all these jobs we should be doing? 'Cos they're not round here ....

Feminine · 10/10/2012 09:17

And...couples will both be expected to work outside the home.

My DH works over 35 hrs a week, to be able to claim UC I will also be expected (once my youngest reaches 5) to find work for a min of 16 hrs also.

This is despite the fact I live in the middle of nowhere, with a bus that comes every 2hrs...and needing good luck finding the one that returns to the village!

My DH will have the car.

ZeldaUpNorth · 10/10/2012 09:26

Not read all the thread as i want to ask a question, which i suspect no-one will know, but will ask anyhow. Dp works 16 hours in a shop at NMW. In april he started his own gardening business on the days he didnt work, which has given him and extra 8-10 hours a week work (at around NMW-depends on the jobs) Next year he was planning to leave his employment and concentrate wholly on his business, but now they are bringing this in i'm not so sure it is going to be viable. Does anyone have any suggestions on the best course to take? Continue as he is now half employed/half self-employed or go fully self employed, or give up his buisness dream and go fully employed? Its all so confusing-i dont know why they had to change things :(

Original poster
morethanpotatoprints · 10/10/2012 09:28

Happy.

My dh has been self employed all his workig life. Unfortunately, the business he has doesn't pay much. He works well over 35 hours a week. We will lose thousands.
I take it you don't receive any benefit.

OP posts:
monkeysbignuts · 10/10/2012 09:34

morethan thankfully we have an excellent accountant. I am hoping she can see a way around it for us too, maybe getting a company car which incures p11D costs as that's taxable income could be a way of boosting wages?!
Stupid toffs are making it hard for everyone but the bourgeois for want of a better word! Talk about look after your own