To ask how defending Lawyers/Solicitors sleep at night.

[lollilou]

When they are defending someone who is accused of a horrible crime and that they know are guilty yet have to come up with a defense to try to get a not guilty verdict? It must happen a lot, how could you live with yourself in that situation? What if the accused gets off then commits another crime?

It doesn't matter how many months of training a barrister gets. You wouldn't go to a GP and say 'oh well, you are only newly qualified, that's ok you misdiagnosed me'. When you qualify you are expected to be competent at your job- presuming you have to sit an exam to qualify. If you don't know what to do you go ask your superior for help. That is what the victim would expect you do.

If you aren't provided with law books you could always go the library. What do you think barristers do? Do you think they have someone that teaches them every little bit of law? The average law student has less than ten hours a week of taught study- the rest of the time they are in the library.

no exams, we get chucked in at the deep end.

i want to go into detail but i cant. i have a massive case looming, one which i had no experience in at all, i was left totally and utterly to it despite asking repeatedly for help.....in the end a CID officer helped me and was incredulous that id been left with it alone as its so huge.

we get no training. nothing. no law books. no advice on court process. i asked my superior.

being a new pc is being a jack of all trades with very little in the tool bag. it amazed me taht we are thrown out with so little - legislative theory - tons of it - i could pass a law studies A level easily now - actual practical advice and help?
you whistle.

Vicar - the prosecution is made up of lawyers though, who choose when to charge and when not to. It isn't an attack on the police (well it shouldn't be). If the evidence isn't there the CPS shouldn't charge.

I thought thats why it was taken out of polices hands when to charge and given to lawyers, so that the police wouldn't have to undertake legal training?

My law tutor recommends garrows law . Plus I've decided I like civil law moreso than crime - hopefully more money in it, we already have one broke lawyer in the family!

And also- since when has a police officer had right of audience in a courtroom?? The police don't stand up in court to begin with- the prosecuting barrister does and they should know what they are doing.

but if you have a vulnerable witness you take on that role of the barrister if you are conducting the interview to be "evidence in chief" and save them the court process.

we get 5 days training on that.

we are doing the job of the barrister - or we should be- if the witness evidence in chief is the DVD interview. this goes for any vulnerable or intimidated witness.

also - not everything is in the hands of the CPS.

of those that are i have found wildly differing practice.

it seems that i should be an expert on both my job, and a self taught expert on the whole court process, from the job of the prosecuting lawyer to the defence barrister.

i earn naff all.

i work very long hours.

i have a huge crime list which is causing me masses of stress - i just get rid of one crime and pick up 5 more.....

in the midst of this, between circulating wanted suspects, circulating cctv stills, interviewing witnesses and suspects, taking statements, investigating crimes and suspects, and preparing case files for court, and getting CPS advice and tear arsing about going to new crimes cos im on a response team, which means i am meant to respond to the radio and go to new jobs daily, you seem to think i should also be teaching myself everything a solicitor knows about law.....?

I hear you Vicar. And I think the police have it shitty. But 5 days training on court procedure, cross exam etc is more than I've ever had.

I had to do advocacy, think it was three days, all about civil.

And ironically,As in the title of the thread, it's me that doesn't sleep at night. 2am. Been up since 5am worrying about my caseload. How to get the care assistant who is stealing from their elderly clients to court. How to do what the CPS have asked me for my section 18 wounding....is the barrister awake now? I doubt it.

I am sure once you get a bit more experienced you will become desensitised to it all. If not, I would look at other jobs.

scarlettsmummy2 how patronising can you get! You have been incredibly rude to Vicar who has been nothing but kind and informative on this thread and doesn't need someone coming on here and undermining everything she says. :(

ooh,just what the general public wants. A policewoman who is desensitised.

Sorry to hear what happened to you babybarrister.

I for one do not want desensitised police,densensitised defence lawyers,desensitised doctors etc. etc.

One of the things this thread has taught me,is that if I ever need a defence lawyer, I want to find one that IS emotionally involved in my case.

And yes,doctors if they know themselves to be a bit incompetent,then they should stop practising.
Not saying you doctor was,from what little I know, diagnosing cancer isnt necessarily straightforward.

No idea what an inquisitorial system is, perhaps you would like say a bit more about that,and which countries use the system. Or else I could just google.

I'm pretty sure as a NQ barrister I had to do 9hours advocacy training within my first three years of practice. Your first VI pupillage is supposed to equip you for those first days on your feet but if you had a Pupil master who spent that entire VI at the bailey involved in complicated procedural stuff it didnt mean much the first time you appear in front of DJ Cooper at Greenwich.

Those first weeks years were a massive learning curve. Mostly what it taught me is that all jobs are so for everyone - no one goes into anything feeling prepared. I have a pilot friend who tells me the same. Now that is more worrying!

What I'm trying to say vicar is I'm sure you are doing your best, you're not the only ill equipped person struggling to make things right. It doesn't mean you're doing something wrong or won't achieve the right results.

There is a big and important difference between being 'emotionally involved' with clients/cases and remembering to treat others humanely, sensitively and with respect.

Getting 'emotionally involved' means I have jettisoned my professionalism, makes it less likely I can offer proper advice and do a good job, makes it more likely I will put myself under huge personal stress.

The moment I feel I am getting emotionally involved is the day I will have to walk away from my job. And this does happen - lots of people involved in child protection in really nasty cases do find it impacts horribly on their lives and they burn out.

Sara - at this very moment I am sitting in on a weekend advocacy training course for new practitioners! They have been doing it for real for three years now, and still learning, still unsure at times. So I have enormous sympathy for anyone chucked in at deep end with only few days or even hours training.

Spero I was supposed to be doing the same next weekend!

Many of my colleagues who are silks and partners still have times when they are unsure. I certainly do most days (although I am neither!). It's the ones that are always sure who you have to worry about. I find that applies to most area of life!

Spero, would you agree to defend someone you know, or is that disallowed?

I see that your are on a training course.
I dont mind if someone else wants to answer the question.

I would never agree to represent someone I knew - just as a surgeon would be very unwise to operate on a member of his/her family.

Emotion clouds judgment. It would be completely unprofessional.

Sara - agree, someone who is never uncertain about anything is quite dangerous IMO.

Actually, I tell a lie - I did once get an injunction for a friend who was being harassed, but it was a quick application, no evidence called and other side not there. I wouldn't have wanted to do anymore though.

I think we must be different. I think I would want a surgeon known to me to operate on me.

If you had a friend,relative etc who you knew and loved, who would you recommend to defend them? A complete stranger?

If I was a surgeon, I wouldn't trust myself to operate on my child. What if I broke down in tears?

I am often asked for recommendations for a good lawyer and I will tell people who I think is good and why. I think it is really unwise to mix friendship with court proceedings and I suspect it is actually prohibited but havent checked code of conduct. But even if it's allowed, I wouldn't want to do it.