To ask how defending Lawyers/Solicitors sleep at night.

[lollilou]

When they are defending someone who is accused of a horrible crime and that they know are guilty yet have to come up with a defense to try to get a not guilty verdict? It must happen a lot, how could you live with yourself in that situation? What if the accused gets off then commits another crime?

mycat and Celtic

I shall start watching Judge John Deed.
Didnt know there was a street called Old Bailey.

Old Bailey is the street where the Central Criminal Courts are, known also as CCC or The Bailey.
Just round the corner from St Pauls.

The court itself stand on the site of the old Newgate gaol. It's pretty unassuming actually. The street is pretty narrow and you often find tourists wandering up and down thinking they can't possibly be in the right place
The iconic image of a court is the RCJ much further up and actually a civil court. The steps are often used in crime dramas though. One of my books has, hilariously, got the steps of the Supreme Court in the states on it because the editor (not in the uk) thought the Bailey was rubbish.

North Square was a fab one-much better than Judge John Deed (though I'm not saying it was realistic).

Well I have known plenty of solicitors as I used to work in legal at one point in my life. A criminal lawyer told me 'you never ask them if they are guilty or not' perhaps that makes it easier!

However it must take some doing to defend creeps who have buggered old ladies outside Tescos I remember there were cases along those lines how disgusting!

Wasn't there one episode of Judge John Deed where he had sex with a member of the jury, a defence witness AND the prosecution counsel while the criminal trial was ongoing? I don't think that is very realistic.

Or maybe I gave up criminal law too soon and have missed out on a lot.

word factory - still get paper briefs tied up in pink string. There are a lot of Data protection issues around email. We will be drowning in paperwork for many years to come.

ive just done a video interview course, in which we were treated to this little gem from Ronald Thwaites QC

?There?s nothing personal about it, if I attack you and rip your arms and legs off and I nail your bleeding carcass to the witness box, its nothing I?ve got against you?. he went on to say "im just doing my job"

A nice quote from Ronald Thwaites QC, the famous and friendly criminal lawyer.

Still tied with pretty ribbons, wordfactory (and still affectionately known as 'bundles' of fun? ). White for civil, pink for crim, I believe.

i know that case theonewiththehair

Pink ribbon is default for almost all cases. White is a Crown brief - Prosecution, Treasury Solicitor etc. Green I think is still used for Chancery cases.

Vicar Ron was one of the biggest influences on my career as a lawyer. When I were a tiddler, just starting out, he was the QC on one of my cases.

He was probably one of the loveliest men I've ever met.

In terms of everyone being pally, in my area of law (not criminal) this is often true. It's quite cliquey and everyone knowns everyone else. Nonetheless, people apply very strict ethical standards. For example, if you meet one of your judges at a social event or conference while the case is ongoing, you avoid one another or at most exchange a pleasantry about the weather. You absolutely do not mention the case. A colleague of mine was good friends with a judge who had a child while our case was ongoing. He waited until the case was over, many months later, to send a gift and congratulations. It would not have been proper to do otherwise. There is no written rule anywhere that says he could not send the gift in those circumstances, but everyone in the field is very concerned about propriety and acting well.

But if after the case if over one of the clients walked into a restaurant and saw them having a chummy dinner together with their respective wives, the client could get the wrong impression.

Sometimes I wonder if I like my job.

It's stressful, emotional and not that well paid. Added to that criminal law is constantly changing and ever more complex.

As I mentioned before, the human need to empathise with someone who has been through something terrible or to understand someone doing something so dreadful to another human soul is often incredibly hard. All you want to do is turn the clock back for everyone involved.

So yes, sometimes sleep does not come easy whatever side you are on.

However. Reading these posts reminds my WHY we who do what we do. Just like all the other professionals who have to pick up broken lives.

We do it, actually, because someone has to. I am bloody glad that it's me.

Ooops. How Vicar?

I hope I haven't just outed myself my dad.
You are with the police from what I recall?

not outed at all - its just that case was within my force area and i know the case.

i have spoken to the head of our public protection unit about it - i dont personally know any other of the people involved in the investigation- i know the back story, i know the family involved - i dont know who counsel was in the case - so dont worry. i just know the case and the bobbies involved, the family involved - it was horrific.

i have trouble wordfactory with how such a lovely man can say such a thing - i realise we are in an adversarial system - but imagine being a rape victim on the receiving end of that statement he made.....

That's a relief.

It was such a bad one that I should have thought someone would recognise it. That'll teach me. :)

I could have a guess at it ThrOne but I wouldn't be sure. Just thought I'd better let you know if you are concerned.

Ok. I think I'll report my post. I still want to say thank you to everyone on here though. That bit still stands. :)

When I did law we were taught that if you get a guilty man off that is the fault of the prosecution for not doing their job properly.

well im sure that will be comfort to the victims of crime scarletsmummy

as a new PC we get sod all in the way of direction/training on prosecutions and the courts process. is that the victims fault then?

No, but I am just mentioning what we were taught when I studied law. I believe everyone has the right to a fair trial, and prosecutors should also be acting to their best abilities. If a police officer feels poorly prepared they need to get reading their law books a bit more the same as in any other job.

i find that quite insulting - ive just done a 5 day video interview course on evidence in chief - you get how many months training in this?
we were taught in 5 days how to be a laywer - to ask non leading, non multiple, no judgemental, non complex questions.
5 days.
refresh my memory in how many months of training a barrister gets?

oh and what law books are these? do you think we get provided law books?