to be bizarrely and maybe disproportionately upset by this....

[quesadilla]

we moved into a new flat two months ago. Its the bottom half of a split-level semi. When we moved in the (childless) young couple upstairs said how happy they are, how much they like living here, etc. Inexplicably, they've now just told us they are selling. We haven't fallen out with them, don't have noisy parties or arguments or anything like that. We do have a 20-month old who, like most toddlers, sometimes shouts, cries, screams etc. And sometimes does it in the middle of the night. Whenever she cries at night or even wakes and chatters in her sleep I hear one or the other of them stomping around in a rage as if to let us know how irritated they are. I can only conclude that they're selling because they are bothered by the noise our little one makes.
Now I know rationally that other people's children can be highly irritating to the childless, that its their choice to move and they are doing the responsible thing by extricating themselves from it rather than expecting us to change something we have no control over. But I'm still really upset by it. It feels in some bizarre way like a judgement over me, us, our life and it made me cry. Do I just need to grow up and deal with it or are they being a bit precious and unreasonable to be so disturbed by the noise of a single toddler and to wonder whether everyone else who lives upstairs is going to have a similar reaction.

I can understand why you feel that way, but don't let it bother you too much. At least they haven't started a battle with you over it.

Sounds like they need to move. Let them go and don't feel bad.

Hopefully the new people will be aware that you have a little one and will understand. They will know what they are getting when they move in.

It could be the best situation all round. To be honest, they could just wear earplugs! It's what I would do. Toddlers crying are a fact of life.

They aren't unreasonable at all. If they are childfree why would they want to listen to a toddler screaming in the middle of the night? Or any other time? In a converted semi the sound proofing is probably poor.

I think you need to get over it. They are not complaining to you, presumably they know that children make noise and you are not doing it on purpose, but why should they not move if they want to? Seems a perfectly sensible reaction to me.

OP you are assuming this is why they are selling! It's a big step to sell your home and I imagine there are more factors involved other than your child.

Don't beat yourself up. They are adults and if they had a problem with the noise they have the option to speak to you.

Have they actually said it is the baby, or have they got a new job, need to move near relatives, come into some money etc?

GoSakuramachi I know that... that's why I asked if I was BU, rather than them. I respect their decision. And I know I should just let them go and not begrudge them (not like we are mates or anything.) I just am trying to understand why its made me feel so shit.

You've got absolutely no idea why they're selling. You are being ridiculous

Because you feel like its a personal judgement of you, rather than an abstract general feeling about noise in general. But you don't even know that it has anything to do with that anyway, it could be any number of things.
You are over-personalising the situation.

StickMeToTheMan I haven't asked them, and its possible that its unrelated. But its the fact that they said less than two months ago that they were happy here. And they're newlyweds and have been here just under 18 months. So it would be odd to sell out of your new marital home after that space of time. But yes, its fair to say there are other possible reasons why they are moving.

You are being a little silly. Maybe they got some more money, maybe they're moving jobs.to.somewhere far away, maybe she's pregnant and they don't want.to be in a flat etc etc. If they were moving because of a toddler that would be daft, there is no way they.couldn't guarantee their next neighbours didn't have twins/a death metal band/a hobby involving drills and hammers.

There could be many reasons for them selling, so I think you are being over sensitive. We live below a family with a toddler and sometimes he wakes me up. Which often means I nip to the loo etc once I'm awake but I'm not in a rage. if you are sensitive about is you might construe this as being in a rage, but they might not be? People walking around at night sounds a lot louder than in the day.

Fair enough, I'm probably being a bit over-sensitive about it, I accept that. I guess I just wanted someone to hold my hand and tell me it wasn't because I wasn't parenting my little one properly or being a bad neighbour. But thanks for the feedback, I guess I need to toughen up a bit.

You are being really quit ridiulous and self-centred - why do you think it is naything to do with you or your children? Perhas one of them has had a promotion or payrise and they can move to a bigger place. 18 months is an entirly reasonable ammount of time to spend in your first home before moving on. And apart from any of this, if they have not complained to you about anything you or your family have done you need to find something else to worry about and stop looking for slights where there are none.

It's making you feel bad because any of (a) it's chiming with your own (maybe not even realised) concerns about whether your daughter is noisy/unsettled; (b) the sort of generalised sensitivity about things that develops when you're not getting enough sleep/feeling lonely - completely par for the course when you're a new parent; (c) you are as a person given to feeling judged - some people just are less thick-skinned than others, and there's nothing wrong with that, it just is.

Try to tell yourself: yes I feel bad, but there isn't anything actually wrong here. People who own flats do not go through the upheaval of selling and moving for one reason as small as this - there will be other reasons too. And your new neighbours will automatically be people who self-select for being OK with a toddler downstairs. There's even the chance you could always swap to the upstairs flat yourself as well - I always prefer with children to be above rather than below.

YABU

You have no idea if this has anything to do with you at all. Maybe one of them has lost their job & they can't afford to keep the flat, maybe one of them has come into an inheritance and can afford to buy a house... maybe they're moving in with an elderly parent to help care for them - there are a million reasons they could be moving that have nothing to do with you.

It is a little nasty and sneery to say 'are they being a bit precious and unreasonable to be so disturbed by the noise of a single toddler'. Some people (like me) sleep very lightly. I sleep badly as well as lightly, so having a toddler (who isn't mine!!) waking me up everynight would push me over the edge- however it wouldn't annoy or upset me, that's what toddlers do and I wouldn't expect anything else... so I would remove myself from the situation if at all possible (but in this situation I would probably stay put and hope it would only last a few more months!). It wouldn't be any reflection on your parenting or judgement of any kind - simply a solution to my problem.

Thingiebob - it's not necessarily anything to do with 'understanding'. I would understand, but that woudn't help me sleep through it and I can't wear ear phones (for many reasons). It's a bit crap to say 'toddlers crying is a fact of life' - they haven't said it isn't, they have just chosen to not be woken by it, by moving (if indeed it has anything to do with the toddler, which I suspect it isn't!! Most people would either put up with it or say something, it's a bit drastic to move without trying to fix the problem )

OP - I'm a little bothered by your reaction to this, do you think it's at all possible you are suffering from PND?

Of course it's not because no aren't parenting properly! This is what all these posts are saying. You are being ridiculous even worrying about it. They want to move, for whatever reason (probably nothing to do with you). You do need to get over this. Really.

And it is totally normal to move a year or two after getting married. We did, so have pretty much all of our friends.

NeDeLaMer
No I'm not suffering from PND. I'm stressed because of problems at work and overtired like any other mum of a young child but its not PND. Look, I was quite upfront about the fact that I realize I might be BU. I'm not blaming anyone at all and I'm quite happy to back down if told I'm BU. I just wanted a bit of third party advice and hand-holding. But if I'm being ridiculous I guess I need to just examine my own reactions to things. Thanks for the advice. But please be gentle with me, I wasn't trying to start a fight.

It probably has nothing to do with you at all.

Soooooo many possible reasons for moving.

Neighbours come, neighbours go.

Sorry x-posted with lots of people.

Consider your hand held :) You are not a bad parent or a bad neighbour.

It's a shame, as you are friendly, that you didn't just say 'Oh, why's that then?' when they said they were moving.

I'm a little old fashioned in that in all but extreme cases children should go to bed & sleep through. I'm not one for getting up several times a night just to settle a toddler when there is nothing actually wrong with them. I consider self-settling a life skill . I don't really do controlled crying either, I guess I'm just firm from the beginning about nighttime being for sleeping. I am well aware that doesn't work for all children, but it would certainly work for the vast majority!! However, I have no problem at all if other people are happy to get up to their kids several times a night, each to their own :)

I suspect you quite like having a childless couple above you because it's quieter for you but for them it mustn't be too good. Maybe you will get a family in then you will all be in it together and it will suit you all.

Its probably nothing to do with you. Does your DH feel the same way about is as you?

YABU you don't know why they are selling? Frankly it's not anything to do with you either. You'd feel a right dick if you worried about this for weeks then confronted them and found out her mother was ill and they were moving closer or some random reason.

IF they are moving because of you, so what? They want to live in a quiet building, I don't blame them.

After my 1st child was born I lived in a block of flats and was the only person who had a baby. It was excruciating. Every scream/whimper gave me waves of guilt.

When my 2nd child was born we moved to a family friendly area and I lived in a block flats where EVERYONE had small children. Bliss! If your child screamed all night you would get a hug or gentle smile on the stairs the next morning.

We now live with our 3 children in a detached house and still haven't got used to not having to say ssshhhh... All the time

Don't worry.

Don't feel bad, we have ALL worried about irrationally stupid things at different times, especially when kids are small.

You sound quite hard on yourself X

I think you are being a little over sensitive. But it's understandable because you think there is a chance that someone is moving out of a home they claim to love because of the effect of your beautiful and much loved baby. It would be odd if you weren't a little offended by that because you are a Mum who rightly loves her child and wishes that she was adored by everyone who knows her as much as she is adored by you.

But in the real world, people are just not that taken by other people's babies.

You should also remember that they are very unlikely to be moving only because of the noise. I would expect there to be other contributing factors as well, and there is no reason why they would have thought to tell you all about those.