to talk about antidepressants?

[Neednewjeans]

Who's on them then? Have they been a help or do you regret taking them? After a bad bout of PND most health professionals kind of 'gave up' with me as I wasn't willing to try them (mostly due to my GP saying my symptoms could become worse before getting any better which, at my worst, I couldn't get my head around).

So...I'd just like honest answers. Did they help? Do you regret it? Would you like to come off them? Or not?

I'm not even sure why the put me on it! I was perfectly happy with what I was on but they decided to plonk that on top

There was a major review of the research a few years ago, which found that SSRIs were no more effective than placebos for mild-to-moderate depression. They can also have unpleasant side-effects. (See Ben Goldacre for a fuller account of the arguments.)

I'm sure that some people are helped by them, or believe they are helped by them, which amounts to the same thing. But as for the question about why take medication for physical illness but not mental illness: the answer is that the term "mental illness" is just a metaphor, not an accurate description of a reality. Mental means "of the mind", and if you argue that the "mind" can become "ill", you have to explain what the "mind" is, which is something that has defeated our best philosophers. The only things that various mental "illnesses" have in common is that they cause people to have feelings they find disagreeable, or to behave in a way that is disagreeable to themselves and/or others.

Drugs affect brain chemistry in a way that makes people feel happier. We know that is true: it's true of cannabis, of heroin, of Ecstasy. But the fact that they do that doesn't necessarily mean that there was a problem with the brain that needed treating.

In the OP's position, I would try CBT, which does have a strong evidence base to supports its use.

hackmum I really find your entire post a bit patronising and insulting. I'm not sure why you keep putting "illness" in quotes either, it is an illness.

And sorry but 'disagreeable' is when your tummy feels a bit offside from eating something. Depression is not 'disagreeable' it's downright awful and terrifying.

Thanks Hackmum - that's interesting. I do really want to give CBT a go.

And from what I can see, you're trying to say there's actually no such thing as mental illness? LOL.

hackmum depression is a chemical imbalance! There for giving a chemical to change the balance is not a placebo effect its a physical effect.
That's the reason electro convulsive therapy works for people with catotonic depression, the physical act releases chemicals into the brain. Trust me I have seen it work on people who were at rock bottom!

Drugs affect brain chemistry in a way that makes people feel happier. We know that is true: it's true of cannabis, of heroin, of Ecstasy. But the fact that they do that doesn't necessarily mean that there was a problem with the brain that needed treating

To feel the way I felt was horrific I was suicidal at one point [lasted for quite some time] but of course it didn't need treating at all. I have a family to take care of including an autistic son I couldn't even take care of myself, don't talk crap.

I do think that in desperate situations they can help. However, my mother takes them and is SO addicted to them (I think reliant emotionally I guess). She's been taking them for 20 years, she isn't depressed any more and hasn't for years, but is totally reliant on them. If she forgets one she totally panicks; I think it's a fear if going back to they point.

Also when I was a teenager she was on very strong ones, she was distant, cold, emotionless, I went through a really hard time and she just wasn't there for me. She was not the loving, caring mother I used to know, and it hurts to think that a pill can change her personality. She's on different pills now, and she's ok, but to be honest I'll never forgive her for those teenage years.

I believe that anti-depressants should be a last resort. But this is just my personal experience.

I've read a lot into depression and there's such conflicting evidence, no-one really knows why it is caused do they? Especially in cases like mine where my life is frickin brilliant and I've nothing to worry about or be sad about, but one day I woke up and it hit me.

But the fact remains that it is there, and antidepressants help the majority of people. Counciling didn't work for me. Neither did homeotherapy.

Thejoyful - I have to admit counselling hasn't worked for me either. Did you find CBT helpful at all? I hope the ADs help you again if they did last time.

monkeys that's something that is a cause of controversy, there's no proof it's a chemical imbalance as far as I know. I was told that by my GP though!

I had counselling because part of my pnd was birth trauma. It didn't help me either it just re opened scars that I wanted to heal.
All mental illness is an imbalance of chemicals in the brain, something that people can't control.

Op I tried counselling when younger but couldn't open up, I'm on my second lot of counselling along with meds sometimes both can work together sometimes either counselling and meds work, depends on the individual.

I believe 100% that pnd is chemical related having suffered myself. I went in to have my son as a happy level headed person and I came out a nervous blubbering wreak that could not even bath her baby without hyper ventilating.
It was a horrible time.

PND is a hormonal imbalance you get a rush of hormones after childbirth they used to say anything up to 3 days or so was the baby blues but to be aware that anything after that was more serious.

Monkeys me too - but for me it's a hormonal imbalance. Of that I am absolutely certain. It was about three days after I had DS that problems started in terms of anxiety which I'd never experienced prior - a massive crash in hormones. Since then it's been worse around periods. So in that way I'd agree it's an imbalance.

"And from what I can see, you're trying to say there's actually no such thing as mental illness? LOL."

Well, I think what I'm saying is a bit more nuanced than that. There are behaviours and feelings that we can categorise as abnormal or disturbing or whatever you like to call it. For example, a friend of my partner's a few years ago started to display very alarming behaviours, including thinking he was a horse. He was diagnosed as having schizophrenia, and given medication for it, and now functions normally.

But my point is that "illness" is just a word we use to describe that. It's a convenient metaphor, but it's nothing more than a metaphor. With physical illnesses, we can describe accurately what causes them, the progress of the disease, and (in many cases) how to cure them. We can't do that with mental "illness". In fact, it's difficult to say what the thing we call schizophrenia, for example, has in common with the thing we call depression.

This is why the psychiatric profession finds it so hard to diagnose people: ask five different psychiatrists to diagnose a patient who is presenting with a particular set of symptoms, and they're liable between them to come up with three or four different diagnoses. Over the years, the manual that psychiatrists use to diagnose people, the DSM, has got thicker and thicker as more behaviours have become labelled as mental illnesses. The boundaries between what we regard as "mentally ill" and "mentally normal" have become fluid because nobody can accurately describe what we mean by "mental illness'.

There's a very good and thorough book on this by the clinical psychologist Richard Bentall, called Madness Explained, which challenges some of the conventional wisdom about mental illness.

I'd love to know why mines started again! It's so frustrating and annoying and I feel like a massive failure.

Wish I could just find something to blame it on but there's nothing.

I think other types of depression can have factors that exacerbate them. For example circumstances etc etc. But pnd for me is most definite hormone imbalance. Glad a few others agreed with me. When I had it almost 5 1/2 years ago I was told baby blues last two weeks anything longer and it was pnd. Why I let it go on for 12 months I don't know.

"Depression is a chemical imbalance! There for giving a chemical to change the balance is not a placebo effect its a physical effect.
That's the reason electro convulsive therapy works for people with catotonic depression, the physical act releases chemicals into the brain. Trust me I have seen it work on people who were at rock bottom!"

Yes, SSRIs and ECT do release chemicals into the brain. But it may be a mistake to assume that the depression is caused by a lack of chemicals in the first place. To take an analogy: if you have a headache, paracetamol will make you feel better. But the headache wasn't caused by a lack of paracetamol.

Let's put it another way. One of the things we know now about the way the brain works is that it responds to the environment. So if you are unhappy, that may cause the serotonin in your brain to drop. Replacing that serotonin may make you feel better, but it isn't addressing the cause of the depression.

By the way, I'm not stopping anyone taking ANDs if they want. I'm just putting the counter-argument.

Hackmum - I'm sure you know illness means 'a state if poor health'. Whether this poor health is mental or physical, it is still an ilness. Whether or not you accept that is your prerogative but what you're saying is, in a word, wrong.

It seems you're going off a lot of what you've read instead of what you have experienced, you can't always do that and come to a proper conclusion about things like this in my opinion. Have you suffered from a mental illness yourself, if you don't mind me asking?

gold do you have bi polar? That is again (to my knowledge) a chemical imbalance where the person is not doing anything different that could cause mood fluctuations.