to expect to be able to find a doctor to see a child, in the uk, closer than 15 miles and less than a 4 hour wait?

[SheelaNeGig]

Shes actually not ill as such but does have spreading infected skin rash. (but imagine if she was ill?)

And 15 miles and 4 hours wait away isn't a Doctor but a triage nurse. I think it needs more than a nurse prescriber considering the fucidin isn't working and she can't take anything orally. But not ill enough to endure a 4 hour wait.

The NHS is in trouble isn't it.

Actually looking on a few websites your hours probably aren't illegal as it seems they calculate them over an average of 17 weeks.

When the EWTD came in I was still in hospitals we were regularly forced to lie about our hours until we did something about it hence why I mentioned doing something about it. If you don't like something, change it!

Yez. I stirring because it bloody shouldn't be ok on either count. But it is. All that stiff upper lip and martyr mentality.

I've worked until between 6 and 7pm unpaid (I finish at 5) every working day for the past two weeks. It's hardly exclusive to healthcare.

Oh i am trying to changw stuff. I really am. Small cog. Big wheel.

No Sheela, I don't think anyone on the thread says it's ok to wait 4 hours if you're ill.

But I htink the consensus is that if you're actually ill, triage gets you through more quickly.

As I've said previously in an ideal world no one would have to wait 4 hours but it happens and yes, I accept that as I'm not unreasonable. I did say that before, guess not listening isn't exclusive to every GP under the Sun? ;)

And as I've gained more experience I stay late less and less because as the years have gone by I have learnt how to manage my time better, I ften work through lunch, I am more comfortable with handing stuff over which is part of the GMC Code of Conduct and also I have to pickup my daughter from nursery. Yes, I do stay late occasionally and I'm happy to because like you I am dedicated to patient care. I don't expect medals or cookies or a parade for it and yes I think it is ok to expect to work extra occasionally. It's like teachers, you moaned about them having to only work during mon-fri but they do loads of work outside their working hours..

And my husband works ridiculous hours unpaid too (not in medicine) but he loves his job and takes pride in it.

We're not bothered about extra money. The only thing that bothers us it that it is time away from our daughter.

Anyway im off to bed. I've not been in work today but I've sat an exam so I'm very tired. Night night MNers, it's been fun! :)

ME too. Bed not exam. Goo luck with results.

And yes if a child is really ill they wouldn't have to wait so your outrage is pointless!

*However (eek) if your child is THAT ill they WON'T have to wait 4 hours.

If your child is ACUTELY ill they will be classified as a priority and been seen swiftly.

So please don't worry about that. x*

What thebitch said above as you seem to keep ignoring people who say sick children wouldn't have to wait

If a child really is ILL, then the wait will be less than 4 hours because your case will be urgent and you won't have to wait.

If the child is sick they will be seen sooner. All triage nurses stick their heads out of the door and eyeball the patients waiting - anyone sick gets triaged earlier. The receptionists are clued up too - they will haul ass if they see a sick child. The reason why they tell people that there is a four hour wait is 1) to let patients know so that they don't expect to be seen the minute they walk in (and if they get seen at say three hours they're happy campers because it's before 4 hrs); and 2) to discourage the inappropriate use of ooh services. So people who could wait to see their regular GPs are put off by the wait and wont go

ok, one more time! I believe I live in the same place as Sheela, and I have had a sick child have to wait at least 4 hours to be seen. On one occassion, we were told on the phone that we could be seen in 4 hours (an appointment was given) in an ooh 20 miles away - this was in the night and ds was ill enough that an hour into our 3 hour wait (at home - so no triage nurse able to pop her head out and see how ds was), we called back because ds looked even more ill, and he ended up in an ambulance and being admitted.

I don't think in our area the triage system works as well as it should, I think it would be great if there was an ooh service available at night less than 20 miles away, I think if you call ooh in the night you should be seen sooner than 4 hours , and whilst I think the children's ward in our local hospital is fantastic - the a+e department is not working as well as it should. We have one gp service in our small town, it is on the whole amazing, and I have been able to be seen very quickly with ds. I know that friends locally have also had the same gripes about the local ooh service, so maybe it is just our area, but in conclusion - OP YANBU!!

Didn't really think there'd be much to add this many posts into the thread but I see virtually no one has answered your question OP

I took my 1 year old DS to ooh for bad tonsillitis. We had to wait 3 hours for an appointment slot then another hour when we got there as the session was running over. The ooh is 15 miles away and either 3 buses or a £30 taxi ride.

Less than a mile from my house are 2 GP practices with 8 permanent doctors and various locums each. My GP who works at this practice does ooh shifts. Whilst I travel 15 miles in one direction he is sent 20 miles in another direction to provide ooh care in an adjacent pct.

Tbh the initial appointment wait doesn't bother me too much, not an emergency etc. However the distance is a real problem and prevents people from accessing the care they need. It is all the more ridiculous when our local GPs are happy to work but sent elsewhere

The GPs are put in a central location to provide OOH cover for a much larger area than they normally cover with the practise though.

It's all well and good expecting when it's your GPs turn to do the OOH shift he stays local but that could mean that for others they are 40 miles away from the OOH gp.

They can't plan based on whether people drive or not, they plan of the a average number of people in an area who are likely to want to access the facilities and try to make it so people can get any treatment which can't wait over a weekend.

hazel I'm sorry you've had a bad experience and no, a genuinely ill child should not have to wait 4 hours. You were within your rights to complain and what you experienced was appalling. As I said up-thread, your situation is totally different. But for a skin infection, if the child is not otherwise presenting in an ill manner, then why shouldn't she wait? If they rush through complaints like that, it slows down those who are more urgent. In a perfect world, people who are sitting in A&E/OOH genuinely ill should not have to wait. Unfortunately, there are two major issues (which I'm sure you know) a.) those who abuse the system and turn up to A&E with a bad cold and b.) the limited pot of money we have.

Above you said this thread touched a nerve and I'm genuinely sorry if anything I said offended you and I'll never pretend the NHS is perfect nor that I don't grumble about. However, I believe the OP in her suggestions (changing weekends) and in her situation is being unreasonable.

OP, not read the whole thread but has your daughter not had this rash for over a week, and you culdhave got her a midweek appointment locally? Is the problem more that you wanted a weekend service, which is provided at a centralised location for many of us, and this has pissed you off?

YANBU to ish you had a localised service, but you did have a local choice earlier in the week.

Forgive me if this is not the kitten scratch case I read about last weekend.

Sorry, I meant to add my point is people who use OOH docs, which is emergency wekeend cover, for appointments which could have been made midweek at local GPs, surely contribute to the fact it is a four hour wait at weekends.

I understand what youu're saying, but there are 2 large practices a mile from us and surely if our town is big enough to require nearly 20 GPs then it is big enough to require weekend cover locally. The current system restricts access to weekend healthcare to non drivers and people on low incomes. That can't be right.

I agree with you to some extent re the wait, and I don't necessarily think a modest wait is unreasonable. It's more the accessibility I have a problem with.

The accessibility is due to finances though. I don't disagree with you that they should be open but there just is not the money.

But there obviously isn't the call for it or you would never be able to see anyone at the weekends which isn't the case. They need to balance the system to ensure that it is providing best value for money whilst still seeing everyone who needs to be seen which the vast majority of the time it does.

If you had things more local then we would be paying GPs to sit around waiting until someone needed to be seen - that just doesn't make sense.

Out of hours i am likely to have to travel 26 miles to see a doctor. Not always, it depends on which local practice is covering on call. Others would have to travel further.

I don't think 15 miles is a major issue, personally. Some people don't havd a doctor on their island in the island group I live in, and depending on weather might not be able to see a doctor for days.

Just like the fireservice, and even supermarkets fgs, doctors need to arrange their services for 7 days a week, equal cover at weekends as for weekdays.

We could fund this by employing more GPs directly and paying them less, such that instead of a GP practice resulting in an income of £200k for one partner, we employ 4 full time GPs on £50k.

Doctors aren't primarily motivated by earning huge sums, and if they are then perhaps they're not the ones we want to keep as our GPs.

So basically redistribute the budget to employ more GPs and reconfigure the service as a 7 day service. This should go for hospitals too because billions of things go wrong at the w/ends at the moment due to the low staffing levels for doctors compared to weekdays.

Healthcare requirements do not reduce on Saturdays and Sundays and it is ludicrous to build a system that assumes they do.

I just don't think that a single ooh facility for nearly half a million people spread over 157 square miles is adequate access to health care. Neither do our local GPs. Our town has 25000 residents a large proportion of whom are elderly non carowning people who are effectively unable to access any form of ooh care short of calling an ambulance.

Sorry, my point was that the current service doesn't see everyone that needs it - only those that need it and have the facility to get there.

Until we moved to our current house, my NORMAL GP was 12 miles away - because we lived rurally. Nearest supermarket, ditto. Nearest secondary school, ditto. Nearest dentist, ditto. OOH (and A&E where I took DS the day he sliced his head open) a little further away, in the slightly further away larger town, so about 15 miles away. Hospital where I gave birth a little further still at 16 or so miles [now that WAS an interesting drive through the night].

What might seem totally unreasonable to someone not living so remotely is just part of an everyday norm for others....

Just another voice saying they had a 4 hour wait with a genuinely sick child - visibly broken arm, bone sticking out - well, 3 hours 55 mins actually. We were triaged promptly, then had to wait... And wait...