I'm at my wits end. AIBU to want to give an ultimatum?

[BlackholesAndRevelations]

both dp and I work full time. I'm a teacher so I have work to do every evening and on sundays. Dp does bugger all unless I nag and nag and nag, then he bashes around and grumbles and complains (like now: 11.30 and he's just started doing the kitchen, moaning and swearing etc). We have two under threes and I get them ready, their bags ready, do the cooking, washing, cleaning... At weekends he watches sport while I do housework. I muss my kids terribly when I'm working and want to spend more time with them at weekends. Think I'm heading for a breakdown actually. So: an ultimatum, change or we're over? And does anyone have any idea of how to actually do this?! Ie making lists/plans etc. Help!

The comment about financial contribution was meant to mean "how would you all cope if he did leave and you had to struggle on a third or a quarter of what's coming in now". I also think there is a difference. My DH has never done any housework at all (no cooking, shopping, cleaning, laundry) and I knew it would be thus. He has earned much more than me for many many years and has always been happy to pay for a cleaner who also helps with the laundry. Also, even if we were earning exactly the same, his job is much more stressful than mine, he travels an hour each way to get there (I work round the corner) and he is out of the house from about 7.30 until about 8.30 and often does another couple of hours when he gets home. He would say he works full time, I would say I work full time. There is, however, a very big difference and i have a great deal more time to pick up the home stuff. We have worked as a partnership and around his disinterest in much that is dometic. Great in the garden, at recycling and with ds's sport though.

"hitting you on the bottom"??

Seriously he does this?

Ffs why are you putting up with this?

And in front of your child. Your DC is going to grow up thinking you are a worthless skivvy.

He only empties the bins if I ask hundreds of times!! He's good with the kids and will bath/put them to bed but usually we do that together. Last night the baby woke and I said to him "I always get up" (which is true! He never hears them in the night!) so he suggested I get the baby and he go downstairs and get the milk. Compromise maybe the way forward? Thanks for all your input and support.

Btw he does earn more than me and once threw that at me in an argument, which I felt was abhorrent and told him so, and he's never said it again. Thing is I'm not sure if he realised ghat was the wrong thing to say, or if he still thinks it but is keeping his opinion to himself now, if that makes sense?

Margery- that's what I'm afraid of. For my daughter but also particularly because I have a son

STRIKE!

Go on strike, move out and leave the piggy to his shit.

I endorse the idea of working around his crap. Pile his laundry in a separate basket by the washing machine, make your children's and your favourite meals and if he doesn't like it tough. Does he leave stuff everywhere? Toss it in a bag on the stairs. If he complains just say 'I'm sorry but I do not have time to look after a grown up child.'

You always get smug lucky posters on threads like this who say what a fantastic partnership they have with their wonderful dps... That doesn't help!

Progress- I just asked him to tidy the toys while I have a shower and he's ACTUALLY DOING IT. not later, or tomorrow, but now! Baby steps....

I went through something a bit like this, though not do bad! My dh just didn't notice what needed to be done, and would tell me I was nagging if I pointed it out. I stopped doing anything for him at all and carried on like a single mum. It took just over a week. We now have a dishwasher, which is his sole responsibility. Washing is my sole responsibilty. He pays for a cleaner, only 90mins once a week, but she does the kitchen and floors etc. Anyway, we worked it out and are much happier again. If you still love each other, you can work it out, but it will need a Big Talk! Good luck.

Thank you eglantyne. Somehow I need to get him to sit down and designate roles/responsibilities as we can't go on like this and I do love him. At the mo I'm upstairs listening to him play with the kids and they absolutely adore him so he can't be all bad!

Of course he's good at playing with the kids...playing with the kids is the fun bit. Being good at playing with the kids doesn't make him anything special. It just makes him someone who enjoys having fun!

I think you definitely need to give him an ultimatum. And mean it. That doesn't have to be "shape up or you're out." It could be "shape up or I will no longer cook / wash / iron for you, just for me and the kids."

The point is - you don't ask him to do things. You just tell him, "If you don't do xxx, then I will no longer do yyyy." No-one could possibly say that was nagging. You just say it once. And then you refuse to discuss it. And then you stick to it.

Good luck.

Hi OP, you could have been me about 3 months ago. FT teacher here plus HOD responsibilities so a very busy working life and a DH who also works long hours in a physical job but who seemed to think that excused him from doing anything around the house. After years of not having the talk and letting resentment simmer quietly, we actually split up in June and it was a major factor in my decision to try separation. I felt like I was mother to 3 (i have 2 dc's) and felt like i was doing everything on my own not as part of a partnership.

It clearly was the kick up the arse he needed. We are now back together having had major discussions about this and he is a changed man and I now feel as if I am part of a partnership.

I am not suggesting you should split up but I am saying you really need to have a serious discussion about it. Not just a little chat where you say you need more help but a full on in depth discussion. You also need to be prepared to issue an ultimatum but also be prepared to take the hit if it doesn't go the way you want.

I know I felt completely rundown and embroiled in drudgery before we split. I was just sad all the time. Things are so much better now.

Good Luck whatever you decide.

I definitely second/third/fourth (?!) acting like a single parent. Don't do anything for him. I'm reading a book and there's a chapter in it, haven't read it yet, but when things get like this where you feel you are nagging and he tunes you out, anything you do that will get his attention has to be ACTIONS not words.

Also, with his clattering and waking up the baby he is trying to 'train you' not to push him to do more. Obviously he would prefer to do less and be allowed to not help. He would rather create a nasty atmosphere by punishing you for wanting him to help out 50:50 than just plain help 50:50

marriedinwhite whereabouts in the UK are you?

I was just thinking that your DHs working hours sound pretty normal for a lot of Londoners, if not shorter tbh!

And these people are not in high flying careers earning big bucks.

They also can't all afford to pay cleaners!

A woman I heard of was "nagging" her husband to tidy up and he was acting like a downtrodden martyr but he got up and 'tidied up upstairs' before coming downstairs and having a beer. A few days later she was looking for clean clothes for one of the kids and she found dirty ones stuffed into the drawers. She was about to ring him in work and then thought no, did he do this? or did my five year old do this?! the fact that she didn't know whether her husband or her five year old did it was the last straw for her. He of course thinks that she filed for a divorce because he put a stained top in the wrong place.

One thing that helped me was describing DH's behaviour back to him as he did it.

Last night I would have said something like "I know you are deliberately doing this job noisily in the hope that I won't ask you to do it again. What will actually happen is that I will have to stop working to go to the baby. That means I can't do tomorrow's packed lunches so could you please make a start on them when you've finished clearing up?"

Natural consequences seem to work as well for DHs as for DCs.

Another strategy cold be to draw up a timetable of the week for both of you. Work out between you a fair division of labour then put them on the fridge and stick to them. He may find it easier to keep doing a bit more if it becomes routine. You cold even tick yours off as you complete them so he has a visual reminder of how little he is contributing.

My DH never considered cleaning a bathroom until I started a degree course and he had to take over some of my jobs. Now he's spent so long doing it every weekend he just gets on with it. Believe me that is a major breakthrough!

AM not much help but I also find the "positive alternatives" helps to avoid the "nagging" feeling. I ask DH if would prefer to do the dishwasher or hang up the washing. Or do the bins or mop the kitchen floor. I don't think he "sees" what needs doing and when I remember this approach it seems to work well for both of us.

I do think the big conversation is necessary. As part of that ask him how HE wants to be asked to do something - because even if you split chores at the end of it (eg him laundry/you housework) there is also always going to be stuff you want to ask him to do. Get him to decide how he can be asked without "nagging". What wording will not make him feel nagged. It sounds silly but it worked for us. A bit.

You need to sit down and talk to him. When I had our DTDs, and was off work for a bit, DH got used to being able to go to work, come home, play with the kids and spend time with me. I was happy to do the majority of housework, shopping etc as I fitted it in around what the kids and I were doing. We had weekends relatively free and it was lovely. Then I went back to work. DH didn't change. He wasn't being a twat, he was just carrying on in the routine we had got ourselves into. He had always done bins and sorted out the garden, but now I was trying to do all the housework, washing, shopping etc as well as doing nursery drop off and pick up AND working full time (teacher & HOD). I carried on like a martyr for a bit, hoping he'd notice the huffing and puffing, which he didn't (he's a man, after all) but then spoke to my mum about it and she laughed and said that my dad had been EXACTLY the same when she returned to work after having me and my dsis. So DH and I sat down and argued chatted about it and now things are MUCH better. It's about communication. I'm not trying to make out that we have no problems now- sometimes I have to ask him if he would mind doing the hoovering whilst I do the bathrooms but we get on with it and it is no longer a source of conflict. Also, it took him a while to get remember than the schoolwork thing can take over somewhat. I don't think he noticed it so much pre-kids, as I would stay at school longer, or get things done early evening. Now I have to wait until the kids have gone to bed, otherwise I'd never spend any time with them, so sometimes I'm working til 10 at night and he gets a bit about it.

Don't play games with this, OP. Don't do the "single mum" trick. That will just cause more conflict. Sit down with him and talk about it, as calmly as you can. Good luck!

Agree with EvilTwins, do not do the strike or single mum thing.

Talk to him, tell him you can not go on doing everything. That you hate constantly asking him to do stuff, that you feel he's not doing his share.

If he loves you, he will want you to feel happy and not to feel under so much stress. Sometimes it just needs the BIG TALK.

I used to work with fridays as a day off and would get in a stress about cleaning the house, mutter and moan and start rows about how it was always me that did everthing, actually worked out that no one but me cared if the house was a mess. anyway got a new job full time and said things would have to change as I would not be doing everything anymore. we drew up a list of chores and we initial if we do them. he does bins and recycling, takes a turn buying bread and milk in the week, does the ironing and cleans the loo. Thursday is cleaning day and the teen boys do their rooms, one hoovers one dusts, I still do the washing and clean the bathroom and change our bedding every week, still do most of the cooking and shopping (online mainly) but the biggest change is that I no longer see everything as my responsibility and am much more relaxed. if I feel like I need to sit down in a clean home before thursday I hoover but its my choice. no more nagging and a happier life all round. the list shows who is doing the most and what is left to do... result

as you both work full time and both tired why not get a cleaner and as dh earns more then you he can pay for them

You love him even though he treats you like shit.

That's not bad luck.

Lots of productive advice- thanks! Yes AThing- I do love him. We're both adjusting to huge lifestyle changes at the min and I'm just trying to make things work for all of us. Believe the "good luck" wishes are from posters who've been here and hope we can sort it out, instead of telling me to leave the bastard!

Thanks again. He's promised to do the kitchen and actually (shock horror) tidied the living room and playroom without me nagging asking him!