to be a little shocked at the laissez faire attitude to drugs on here?

[ThatVikRinA22]

at risk of sounding like your mum and pulling a cats bum face

im a bit shocked. Ive seen reference to drugs and recreational drug use on here before, and while i love the diversity of mn, im always quite shocked at what seems to be a majority? view that recreational drugs are just part of life, that its ok because 'professionals' do it too, that its not the same to be seen to use cocaine at the weekend as it is to be a shoplifter or prostitute with an addiction to herioin....

is it just that no one sees the murkier side of drug use?

i suppose i see the darker side because of what i do for a living, but even before that, i would never have been tempted to try. There are the wider issues with production, trafficking, crime, gangs, and the environmental issues in production
just one such story here

my brother was a heroin addict, and i lost my sister to drugs, one way or another, i believe drug use contributed to her death. Seriously, most the crime i deal with is in some way drug related. Two weeks ago i was involved in an attempted murder over cocaine and cannabis supply.

i am not some rabid campaigner, but this is mumsnet - are most of us parents? i find it odd that people can froth about the small stuff, that people get pilloried for some really bizarre stuff on here while threads about drug use get a fairly "meh" response. (yes its a thread inspired by the coke using teachers assistant....)

why is that? genuinely interested to explore why coke use is seen as ok, and wonder what is not ok?

if its ok for the TA to use coke at the weekend, is it ok for them to smoke crack? or use heroin? doctors were mentioned on the last thread....would you undergo an operation knowing your doctor or surgeon had used coke? or smoked cannabis?

if its just part of life, where would you draw the line?
do people not realise what it takes to get that gram of coke at the pub at the weekend?

nope. drugs are drugs to me.

herion users get called 'smack rats' and junkies
coke users are middle class teachers on the weekend off. theres your difference.

if i were to start a thread saying my childrens TA was taking heroin how many would tell me to mind my own business then?

load of bollocks. drugs are all illegal and thats the way it is.

I think the days of cocaine being the 'yuppie' drug are long gone. It used to be expensive, now it's dirth cheap. Cheaper than heroin I believe.

The guy who cleans your windows is just as likely to be on cocaine as some city trader.

Vicar (again, sorry)

Take it a step further and visualise what actually would happen if tommorow every single illegal drug were made legal.

-The black market would instantly collapse as new 'clean' markets sprang up, all falling over each other to capitalise on the money to be made. Intense, heated legal competition, driving drug costs waaaaay down, and opening up the entire industry to ethical monitoring.

-Drugs become insanely cheap and easy to acquire (compared to previously). Many existing drug addicts go on a 'feeding frenzy'. Many die from overdoses. They do not need anywhere near as much money to get their drugs, so they do not need to engage in anywhere near as much criminal activity to get money. Life becomes easier for them and crime goes down. Communication with this group overall becomes easier without the threat of legal consequences hanging over their heads.

-Many non-drug users will suddenly realise they too can now go and try drugs if they want to.
The vast majority won't, for the same reasons they didn't want to when they were illegal.
Some will, because the law was the only thing stopping them. They may or may not become hardcore addicts depending on other life variables. They may decide its utterly not for them. Or they may join the population described below.

-The hidden (but vocal) percentage of people who are already using drugs sensibly for personal reasons (of infinite variety) and maintain a fully functioning productive adult life will breathe a huge sigh of relief as now some honest research and education can start taking place about what these drugs (in their pure, not street-cut form) actually do!!! And what may be some sensible (and not sensible) reasons to take them.

no it wouldnt. there is still a black market for cheap booze and cigs. There will still be a black market.

while im interested in the idea that legalising them would bring some kind of crime free utopia, i also do not want my children exposed to drugs.

VicarInaTutu Wed 03-Oct-12 16:09:56
drugs are all illegal and thats the way it is.

Alcohol?
Tobacco?

There will always be a small black market for cheaper anything, including handbags. But nowhere near the scale of the problem that is currently on our hands.

Exposure to drugs is going to happen. The context of how it happens can be changed.

It's all a bit hypothetical though isn't it. The fact is that drugs are currently illegal and therefore by buying/taking them users are choosing to break the law of the land and contribute to the nefarious trades that go with them.

No one needs drugs. You can make an argument to legalise them certainly, but until you actively campaign for it and it happens, you are actively encouraging criminal culture.

I'm on the fence with legalisation. Yes it will remove a lot of criminality but I worry that it will normalise drugs in the same way that alcohol and binge drinking has been so normalised in our culture.

Drugs are legal in this country. Tobacco and alcohol. If tens of millions of people have fun every week taking legal drugs that can do serious damage to themselves and society in the name of 'personal freedom', why get that excited about the illegal ones?
(I don't drink, smoke tobacco, drink caffine, take snuff, but do have a puff on any joint that gets passed round)

In a legalised-drug world, children would be exposed to drugs the same way they are exposed to anything dangerous. Sex, alcohol, and cars come to mind.

They would be taught by their parents and schools what the real risks and benefits were, and nurtured along as best as possible to make their own informed personal choices.

while im interested in the idea that legalising them would bring some kind of crime free utopia, i also do not want my children exposed to drugs.

You'd better get some good locks on their bedroom doors then.

nope. drugs are drugs to me.

Vicar, you show your very unreasonableness in that seance. How little you know. Please educate yourself so you can educate your children.

Not all drugs are the same. And you do realise that Ibruprufen, caffeine, nicotine and alcohol are drugs yeah?

If you are honestly so stupid to think there is no difference between a physically addictive drug and a psychologically addictive drug then there is little point you even engaging in a drugs debate.

yanbu.

Dahlen What you say about needs is true. Nobody needs drugs. But at the same time nobody really needs much of anything (except the basic water, food, shelter). None of us need our laptops or televisions or glasses of wine.

But we all want things.

We all like choices.

Its about freedom.

I'm joining this thread whilst inspecting the bruises inflicted by a stoned 46 year old, old enough to know better? They were middle class with children and a social user and alcohol was not involved.
I've been out to 21 year olds having an MI due to coke use. Put in vulnerable child forms about young children who are being massively neglected due to cannabis use only to be told 'we mustn't judge people according to our standards'. I've been attacked by youngsters using MCAT while their toddlers looked on bemused. My heart breaks for all those lives wrecked.
So far ,touch wood, I haven't been attacked by a drunk, treated them yes but generally find them easy to manage unless drugs are added to the mix.
I'm not sure legalising drugs would work totally unless the whole world did it and that's not going to happen and the effects that I see wouldn't be changed by it.

Dahlen No one needs caffeine or alcohol or nicotine or even naice ham but that doesn't stop them being loved by many people!

ffs is that the best you can do? telling me that paracetamol is a drug? really????

i think if thats the best you can come up with then you have had too many drugs.

Drugs ruin some people's lives. Alcohol and tobacco too.

Should we ban alcohol and tobacco as well OP?

My ds is 18 now and so this has been discussed endlessly amongst my friends/peers in the last couple of years. Those who think their dc never would/don't are sadly mistaken. There are a few people on this thread who could be in for a shock. As I said before the most anti (who is in fact a teacher) has a son who sells and the one from the family where drugs were used and caused a fair bit of in the playground amongst parents (me inc) when younger is very into the church and is the polar opposite of his parents! The drugs are drugs attitude is sad in a way as it is soooooo far off the mark.

Decriminalization is a good half way measure between the situation now and legalising.

As I said earlier, it worked in Portugal. It doesn't mean it is legal to take or deal drugs it just means there is a more sensible and realistic attitude towards the problem.

Please Vicar you are normally a voice of reason on hear and you are sounding very irrational. I understand that many people who are into legalisation are flakey drug users, i am not. Don't generalise.

The difference is that alcohol, tobacco and naice ham are legal. Illegal drugs are not.

On here. Urg.

I would have to say YANBU, just because i hate knowing what's happening to one of my younger cousins now.
He's only 17; & lucky to have started a college course that is fun as well as educational.
He's lovely, caring, eccentric but popular & confident - & he has a potentially bright future ahead of him like many 17 year olds.

He's also got a tendency to bouts of severe depression & has been suicidal.
Not helped by the mindfucking amounts of skunk / weed, & other drugs that he experiments with.

I could say more but that's enough; i hate thinking about how his personality is being destroyed.

Lifeisontheup My heart breaks for the experiences you describe because I am very, very well acquainted with them also, and like you, would do anything to counteract the forces that cause them to be.

However, the drugs are not the cause. They are inextricably linked because 'drugs' and 'people in pain' go together.

'People in pain' do fucked up things like abuse children and commit crimes, and beat other people. They also take drugs because it helps with the pain.

But it is possible to be a 'person in pain' and not take drugs.

It is also possible to take drugs and not do fucked-up things.

The drugs do not cause the terrible experiences of pain you describe.

Fucked up people cause the terrible experiences of pain.
Many times those fucked up people will also be on drugs.

But there is a significant group of functioning, productive people who use drugs in a responsible, sensible manner for a legitimate reason. Hospitals are amongst these (diamorphine = heroin). And there are individuals too.

It is possible because the drugs and the heartbreak are not linked in the cause and effect way you think they are. There are strong relations yes, but not 'cause and effect'.