to not want school to teach my kids how to speak in the way the teachers wants?

[bellabreeze]

Having irish accents the teacher of some of my kids has told me they would do little speech classes so they speak different.. its not the accent but its things like saying 'ting' not 'thing' and dat not that and stuff like that really.. I think.. I don't think it is important enough to waste time doing? But maybe I am wrong?

If there were aspects of my speech that the community I lived in found difficult to understand, I would most certainly try to modify the way I spoke, to them at least. Why would I not?

if the children are young enough to be sounding out words when reading then 'dat ' and 'ting' could be an issue-if they are older and can already read fluently then..[shrugs]

Because it feels and sounds very weird and very false. Any time I overpronounce certain words because I know certain people don't understand them, they look at me funny and sometimes it comes across like I'm being patronising. It's far easier to just speak normally and repeat a word if needs be. Slipping in and out of an accent comes across weirdly and makes people think you're either putting it on or taking the piss. I'd rather people knew me as I am. Over time everyone gets used to my accent and there's no issue any more. In fact a lot of non-English people say I'm far easier to understand than English people because Irish people tend to pronounce every letter in word, rather than dropping "r"s or "t"s.

My accent shifts all the time, because I lost my natural accent early on. I do feel more confident in some situations doing RP, and in others I can see it is not an advantage.

But a child can learn a new accent later on, if they really want to. Trying to introduce it at the stage where they're doing phonics is going to be incredibly confusing, I would think.

Considering most the white, middle class offspring of traditionally 'well spoken' English parents that I know speak like Essex born Jamaicans I wouldn't be too concerned

"I'd like to know where the up-to-date data is that supports the idea that regional accents cause their bearers to suffer in life. "

It's all about context. I don't think accents matter quite so much as they did in the past but lazy pronunciation and slang is about judging your audience. When I hear teens chatting away in a cod Asian/Jamaican/Ali-G patois with their mates, that's fine. And if they wanted to make a living in a walk of life where everyone else speaks the same way, no problem. But in another context... let's say they wanted to be a barrister... they're not going to get very far if they don't rein in the 'innits'

"But a child can learn a new accent later on, if they really want to. Trying to introduce it at the stage where they're doing phonics is going to be incredibly confusing, I would think."

Scientific knowledge of language development strongly supports the acquisition of pronunciation (accent) as early as possible. Hold-back theory (= waiting until later) is not supported.

Changing an accent can be incredibly hard too. Some people have an ear for accents and switch easily but I know plenty of people (including DH) who can't hear accents at all - even if someone has a very very strong accent it doesn't register with him and he certainly can't tell where someone is from from the way they speak. Trying to get an English person with no ear for accents to recognise and change the English "r" is really really hard, and the same is true for changing and Irish person's "th."

It's a case of weighing benefits against disadvantages.

If you teach a new accent at the same time as teaching early reading, you could cause that child real problems.

If a child can't learn a new accent later on ... well, not the end of the world.

Again Bonsoir, that applies when someone is learning a foreign language. English is not a foreign language for Irish people.

There is absolutely no difference in the brain development window-of-opportunity for learning the correct pronunciation of a foreign language or the pronunciation of standard English or a dialect.

Your theory has been totally disproved, LRD.

And clearly the OP's children have learned to speak English. So what do they need to be taught? To speak "acceptable" English?

To hell with trying to "undo" an accent. Thankfully, there are still some people who live and think out the box and dont conform to the sheep standard. Clearly not enough but still many.

I see what you are saying. However, dh for example is professor. People do not have time to adjust to his accent and they need to understand him.

I work primarily with Indians living in India (remote working). Of course, at first, it took us a little while to get used to our respective accents (mine's Irish) and country-specific use of English. But we manage just fine. It's really not that difficult.

IMO, the OP's children are are displaying an intuitive grasp of how language works. Their particular accent means that they use a 'd' sound for the 'th' sound when speaking, yet they can read, recognise, and spell those same words correctly. They do not make the obvious mistake of writing 'd' when 'th' is required. They are smart kids.

No, bonsoir, it hasn't. You're just not familiar with it, probably because you're still at the level of talking about 'sounds'.

This sounds like elocution lessons, and I thought they went out with the dinosaurs.

If schools teach phonics, and children are failing to learn to spell because of that, perhaps schools shouldn't teach phonics but teach spelling in a different way?

And I really object to the idea that having a regional accent is not speaking 'properly' or is about 'mispronouncing' words.

And finally, I agree with MadBusLady on this: 'As for those saying people with regional accents get bullied/don't do well at interview - if that's true, I think we're probably better off getting rid of that ignorance and bigotry rather than pandering to it, no?'

Gossey I've taught 4 year olds. They adjusted to my accent in about an hour. If they can do that I think adults can do it. In a university in particular students are likely to come across a very wide range of accents among lecturers. Would you agree with the university specifying that all lecturers speak with a particular accent to ensure they're understood?

LRD - I think that you need to be careful. You have an area of expertise and I also have one.

lady - phonics is fine as a way of teaching even if you're using a regional accent. This is because all of us, no matter what accent we speak, are learning how the spoken language corresponds to the written one. We all need to learn the phonics of that. It just happens to involve slightly different correspondences for different people, depending on accent.

bonsoir - yes, you are very good at your area of expertise, but 'winding people up' is not the subject here.

Incidentally phonics is used to teach reading in Ireland, but as part of a wider programme that includes elements of whole word reading. The focus on phonics isn't nearly as strong as it is in England.

Calin, I know people can adjust but dh's students see him for an hour a week in a lecture theatre and we know that there was a time when many of them found his accent very difficult to follow. Had his interaction with them been more concentrated, they may well have adapted to him quite quickly.

My mother still does not undertstand him, but I suspect that that is rather a good thing.

Of course the university should not specify how people speak but as a professional person or part of a community, you may want to reflect on it yourself.

LRD, thanks for that; I don't know anything about teaching phonics.

So, if anything, teachers just need to be very knowledgeable and skilful in teaching phonics while taking into account different accents?

That suggests that this teacher/school is just more concerned with children speaking 'properly' by their own snobbish measures than anything else.