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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think that 'inner city kids' are not 'hardened'?

99 replies

CandiStaton · 30/09/2012 23:03

just read this on another thread about shouty teachers and bringing bullies into line

a poster said you have to shout to get through to some kids, and you have to shout loudly if the individual is a 'hardened inner city kid' Sad

ive heard it before

we are inner-city

kids are kids

you're as likely to find a hideous bully in the country or the leafy suburbs as you are inner-city

and LOUD does not equal naughty...

Sad
OP posts:
Original poster
CandiStaton · 01/10/2012 00:02

there is actually boringly a minimum fresh air requirement for different types of building classes, and different types of rooms; its in the region of 10 l/s/person

so a building has to be designed to deliver this. a naturally ventilated building is likely to rely on open windows-especially older buildings

It is important in schools because insufficient ventilation effects concentration/behaviour etc

but, lovebunny it sounds like you have an extreme reaction to closed windows?

OP posts:
Noqontrol · 01/10/2012 00:03

Are you really a teacher lovebunny? Hope not. I would hate for you to be my dc's teacher.

Original poster
CandiStaton · 01/10/2012 00:05

i have to assume lovebunny is different when she is in the classroom

OP posts:
WorraLiberty · 01/10/2012 00:05

I have to say having read some of lovebunny's past posts I struggle to believe she's a teacher at all but if she really is, then I can only say thank god she doesn't teach my kids.

Having said that, I'm a school governor and I would do everything in my power to make sure she didn't teach at all in my DS's school due to some of her past posts.

I do always imagine her to look like this Blush

Noqontrol · 01/10/2012 00:09

I struggle to believe she is a teacher too. Must keep a closer eye on dc's teacher for irrational outbursts of rage Hmm

akaemmafrost · 01/10/2012 00:14

I think that's rather a charitable representation worra.

I find some of her posts re her teaching absolutely terrifying quite frankly.

happybubblebrain · 01/10/2012 00:18

It's just lazy thinking to make generalisations about people, especially children. You can meet all kinds of people in all walks of life.
Stereotypes are usually wrong, although I've never even heard that stereotype before.

OpheliasWeepingWillow · 01/10/2012 00:44

lovebunny um, seriously. I am not sure AIBU is the best place for you TBH

enjolraslove · 01/10/2012 01:12

I teach 'hardened inner city kids' and never shout. Ignoring the fact that shouting at children is not a nice thing to do, it would be totally in effective because some of them (not all) are shouted at a silly amount at home.
Instead a quiet and respectful conversation with my pupils works wonders. And actually fixes things, rather than further frighten/alienate kids who already have difficulty trusting adults.

sashh · 01/10/2012 03:36

What enjolaslove said

nooka · 01/10/2012 03:58

My ds used to have a 'shouty' scale for his teachers, they were all ranked according to their shoutiness, and he would advise dd (two years below at school) accordingly. When I asked him about this he said he thought that a bit of shouting was necessary at times. I guess it depends whether the shout is raising your voice to be heard and bring the class back to order every now and then or the more ranty type of shouting of a teacher who is not generally in control.

On the inner city vs country stuff ds and dd went to a semi-inner city school (in Penge) and then we moved to small town west coast Canada. ds says the Canadian school is more laid back, but the children swear more here. Generally he thought behaviour was pretty similar. In terms of sad stories we know more children affected by alcoholism here (several no longer living with their parents).

Leena49 · 01/10/2012 06:00

Can't believe the mob mentality on here. I'm a teacher and I shouted last week. The girls are 17 though. Would anyone like to volunteer to teach a class of 26, 17 year old hardened inner city girls without raising ones voice occasionally? Now and again guess what you need to shout!

Original poster
CandiStaton · 01/10/2012 06:48

nooka YY, like i said; we are inner city. i volunteer in school...there is a massive diversity of backgrounds and some sad tales. the kids are lovely 1 and all

however, I grew up in a rural village where i went to Primary school and then attended the secondary which served all the village primaries in the region; i can assure you there were very very many twisted and traumatic home lives affecting kids in that school; and lots of kids were 'unreacable'

it actually really pisses me off, to describe a child as hardened. that is how you describe criminals ffs

OP posts:
Original poster
CandiStaton · 01/10/2012 07:07

in fact, the only issues i can think of that kids here have that werent seen where i grew up are related to being a refugee and FGM

plenty plenty alcoholism and abuse all over

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HecateHarshPants · 01/10/2012 07:18

Having experience of both, it is my observation that inner city kids tend to be more exposed. Less 'kid like' earlier than those in rural areas.

Just generally. Obviously I can't claim that it is the same for every child, but it is enough for me to be able to notice a difference. They seem - older for their age. Whether that's a good thing - savvy at an earlier age - or a bad thing - lose out on the innocence of childhood - is a matter of opinion.

But I think that where you grow up is bound to shape you. I don't think that's in itself any sort of criticism. Just an observation.

Valdeeves · 01/10/2012 07:19

You are quoting me directly in the post but out of context.
I think this is a bit of a confused thread.
Pupils can be hardened whatever background they
come from. That was not the point I was making - I was
saying that sometimes you have to shout to be heard
over 31 voices. Sometimes a short, sharp shock works
well in gaining fast control and continuing education,
I also added that I don't personally shout.
I really resent being quoted out of context.
If you don't believe a pupil can be hardened that you are being
naive - it has nothing to do with them not deserving good treatment.
I have ten years experience of teaching and sometimes pupils
do have lives which mean they don't respond to
discipline - hardened. It takes years to build enough respect
to crack that and sometimes you just can't. And when I say crack it - I mean using kindness, rewards and responsibility.
I just find this post really strange - you can't compare
teaching to other jobs? Of course a boss is not
going to shout at you in the office? There isn't 31 of you and
you are not distracted by teenage hormones or your peers?

Valdeeves · 01/10/2012 07:23

I get that the phrase hardened night be controversial
and I don't mean it in the sense of criminal (although sorry I have
taught many pupils who were criminals and went to prison at a young
age,) I mean it in the sense of "unresponsive" so I'll rephrase that.

Some pupils are unresponsive - it never means you stop
trying to support them in having better life choices. It always
good to see a success story in the end - good job, university etc.
However sometimes you just can't crack someone as they've
been hurt to much.

Valdeeves · 01/10/2012 07:26

Candistation - I get what you are saying and have
re-phrased to make sense.
I am inner city too and also grew up in a rural enviroment

  • I agree with your comments there.
Valdeeves · 01/10/2012 07:29

I think honestly you have to BE a teacher to judge a teacher.
It's such a challenging job on every level.

nooka · 01/10/2012 07:53

I'm not a teacher but have many in the family (one reason why I'm not a teacher!). I don't have any problem with the idea that teachers might occasionally need to yell. I do dislike the labeling of children who happen to grow up in the inner city as hardened or unresponsive. Possibly because I grew up in an inner city myself. But then I might well think of those from more rural areas as likely to be naive. It might well be about perspective.

Having said that the noisiest school I've ever visited was in a wealthy area of Queen's New York. Great school, lovely children, but noisy! They just had a different ethos when it came to children talking (it was a special assembly).

Original poster
CandiStaton · 01/10/2012 09:31

valdeeves

maybe i quoted you out of context-will go back and re-read when i have more time

But my point in starting the thread, is that people think inner city kids are hardened....it is never used as a sweeping description for kids in villages/the suburbs

An individual child can be 'hardened' by their life (although I still dispute the use of that term as being appropriate)...but an individual child is as likely to be hardened in the city as they are in a village

IME 'hardened' kids are generally petrified with a thin veneer of bravado...which you may or may not be able to get through. I am not anti-shouting in the least; but these kids are least likely to respond to be shouted at then any other, so rather than being inappropriate...its just ineffective

shouting to be heard over 31 rowdy kids is valid IMO. Shouting because 'inner city kids are hardened and they need shouting at' is not valid IMO

leena if you are teaching 17 year olds, they arent going to be the kids that have disengaged with eductaion/school...because they are still there/returned at age 17

sorry, in a rush...be back later to respond properly

OP posts:
Original poster
CandiStaton · 01/10/2012 09:35

more exposed to what hectate?

OP posts:
Leena49 · 01/10/2012 09:40

It's not that the city itself makes kids hard it is just kids in general that have to deal with stuff they shouldn't from a young age. That could happen in the town or country. The kids I teach are not frightened to challenge. They are used to having to do it that's all. Inside they are big softies and very insecure. The more challenging the better for me.

Leena49 · 01/10/2012 09:42

They are not all engaged with education candi staton they just don't have many other choices out there.

freddiefrog · 01/10/2012 09:46

Less 'kid like' earlier than those in rural areas.

^^

My neices/nephew live in South London, we live rurally on the South Coast, similar family set ups, life experiences, etc

My neices & nephew seem much older than my kids (they're all pretty much around the same age), more streetwise iyswim. My kids are more naive maybe.

They stayed with us in the summer and they found a lot of the activities my kids love to be very childish - crabbing/building sandcastles/etc

Obviously only speaking from my own experience