when did state education stop being free? eh?????

[Clary]

DD has come home with a request for a voluntary contribution to school - for her art exercise book.

Yes it's only 50p, but I really really resent the idea of paying for her blimming exercise books.

We send her to school in uniform, with pens, pencils, calculator and PE kit; is it really too much to suppose the school will provide her with the paper to do her art work?

I said in a bit of a temper "well art is bobbins expecially at that school" (DS1 has had a difficult time of it with a very negative teacher) and DD rather upset said if she didn't take the money she wouldn't get the exercise book (so much for voluntary then!).

DH agreed with me and started going on about the thin end of an enormous wedge. School is an academy (as so many are) so is this the way it is going to go? This week 50p for an exercise book, next week £10 or we won't teach your child music?

We get very little in the way of requests, having read the thread I can't believe how lucky we have been! In secondary school in the 80s I remember having to buy all our own paper, pens, pencils, notebooks/folders/exercise books. We just did it.

Textbooks were provided, but at the end of the year we had to hand them back in. They were then checked over, in public whilst all our mates were present, and we were charged for any damage done. That blinking well taught us to treat them right. We had to pay for our own paper to cover them for the year too.

But school trips - that's another ball game. £300 for a crappy youth hostel trip? I'd be up in arms too, having paid nothing like that for DD2's 2 nights away in a swanky activity centre with everything laid on. And DD1's trip to the Isle of Wight last year was £250 - three nights away, food, transport, ferries, insurance, all activities. BoffinMum was right, school was taking the piss.

And don't get me started on single supplier uniforms. DD1's current secondary has introduced a blazer/clip/on tie jobbie and it is via a sole supplier, but it actually costs a bit less than the previous sweater/polo shirt uniform, which can still be worn by Yrs 8/9 because they don't want to force the parents to shell out. It looks smart and it's really affordable. Including PE kit I paid £65. For everything.

We've had a free school open nearby - their uniform is well over £100. And it's different for boys and girls so you can't pass it down if you have one of each - not just a slight difference in cut that you could get away with, but prescribed different for boys and girls. That's fleecing parents.

And the school bus route subsidies are being changed, so that parents in the free school catchment who are on low incomes are effectively being forced to send their DCs to the free schools, because the cost of transport becomes prohibitive.

That's what we have to look forward to under this government.

Parent have always had to pay for somethings. Even in th early 1970's DM comlpained about buying art stuff for me. She never had to buy a text book though. We had text books for every subject too.

My six DC range in age from 31 to 15 and in all their school years I have never bought an exercise book and most paper and graph paper has been provided. They have very rarely been given text books to bring home. The only dept that has supplied course books most years is MFL. I have bought any text books they needed. In science all 6 needed different books because something about the course had changed.
In design we were often asked for a small sum at the begining of the year and for cookery we always have to buy any ingredients.

I understand the new year 7 at secondary closest to us have all been given new ipads so their parents have no need to complain. I don't know what happens if they are lost or broken. Some of the same pupils were given brand new musical instruments in year 3 or 4 when their primary got some grant for music.

In Australia we had to buy ALL of our own exercise books. Each department in secondary schools in the UK spends 100s of £££ per year on exercise books.

And as you've read upthread, teachers frequently subsidise their students' stationery needs etc too, just to give them a better experience. They also don't get paid extra for giving their own time for overnight trips or lunchtime or after school clubs.

So for 50p for your own kids? Yes, YABU. But if you want to blame anyone, blame Gove and this government.

Some of these posts make me so depressed. As has been pointed out, unless you earn a huge amount and/or only have one child your taxes do not cover your child's education.

So if you are able, what is wrong with subsidising where necessary? Schools do not have enough money. It's pretty simple.

See, this is what makes me so sad. We have a fantastic education system. And people feel absolutely entitled to have it for free. All of it. Even the extras. Why? I can't imagine anyone is poor en

enough to really struggle for 50p

just be thankful that you don't have to buy more - like aroom here in Ireland you have to buy all text books and materials for your children's education, which is (notionally) 'free'...

The OPs kid isn't at a state school though.

In my classroom, the pens, pencils, pencil sharpeners and rubbers were bought by me. It was that or do without. If I want some new crayons this year, that'll be me again. If I want any nice display stuff such as posters, I will have to buy them. If I want even tiny prizes for competitions, a really good way to motivate some kids, I will have to buy them. The ball I use for games was bought by guess who?!
There is no money. No good grousing, our budget in our department was down by 50% last year. The head spent hours trying to make the budget balance without making anyone redundant and that's how he did it. No good complaining to him, he has no more money to give us.

I would far rather parents bought exercise books etc and there was a grant system to subsidise those on low income. I get sick of seeing books where pupils have started a fresh page every lesson, even if they have only written on 1/4 of the page; or who have written on every other line; or who have left a huge chunk of space between every exercise/activity. And then have to listen to them moan when they have 'finished' their book and I send them back to their seat with instructions to go back and fill all the spaces.

I don't know why people moan about food tech costs - they have always been an expense for parents - at least you get to eat the food! I only did sewing in years 7 and 8 and the school provided the stuff but you had to pay a small contribution if you wanted to keep it.

when did state education stop being free? eh?????

State education has never been free, just as state hospitals have never been free.

They have to be paid for in some way. The only question is who pays and when.

I don't have a problem with paying for school trips etc.

I also don't mind paying for food tech food - after all, we will eat it!

I wouldn't even mind paying out £££ for GCSe art supplies if they actually did the subject at that level over my dead body

But this is a really basic item that is needed - if we had to pay for all the exercise books and planner etc she is deemed to need it would be a bit much surely?

Yes it's only 50p, it's really not about the money. I work in a school and we give everyone exercise books. In fact I am a teacher and have just gone mad in the £ shop buying treats for my form if they win the weekly raffle - my latest bid to get them to behave. That's got abslutely nothing whatever to do with this - surely the school should supply a book for my daughter to do her art work in? Maybe I should refuse to pay and then she won't have to do the stupid homework.

DD's school prospectus actually states that basic supplies such as exercise books are free "in the first instance". If every subject asked for 50 p for a book that would be about £5 or more, then what if they ask for £5 for a planner, then money for any text books the class needs, money for any copied sheets, where will it stop? My worry is that it could be a big burden, not that 50p per se is a burden obviously.

I am on the PTA btw, no one has ever mentioned money going towards exercise books tho It is a state school btw, even tho it is an academy, surely??? I teach in an academy and I wouldn't call it a private school, exactly

Is there an alternative to the special paid for exercise Art book?

Just thinking of the ones we (at primary I work at) can no longer afford to buy as a school and the ones we now use instead...wondered if the 50p went towards the nice ones with the thicker paper, but if they don't want to pay it they can have a normal plain paper one, which are much cheaper.

DD's school uses the nice thick paper art sketch pads and they are far better - but they do a lot of art at school; it is seen as a serious subject and they enter lots of competitions, etc. Wish we still had them at our school as used them a fair bit; especially useful when out on trips, etc.

You sound delightful Clary

Do your colleagues know how you feel about their subjects?

I am fairly nice thanks

I don't dislike the subject of art as such, if you are good at it then I am sure it's a good option, it's just that none of my kids are especially wonderful at it, and I think there are better options for them. Luckily so do they!

DS1 in particular has struggled with art and an unsympathetic teacher for two years. The art teachers where I work are great tho, so I hope they do know that!

Clary is very lovely, actually .

Me, it's learning cooking - sorry, 'food tech' - in school I find hard to stomach (often literally). DD1's art teachers are rather lovely, though.

There is only one point - schools don't have the money. I dare say they agree with Clary but they can't produce books by wishing!

I grew up in Ireland, where everything had to be bought ourselves - text books, copies, pens / pencils, art equipment, everything!
Used to cost several hundred quid every year, and your griping about 50p...

Of course academy schools aren't 'state' schools. They aren't under LA control and have complete autonomy over what they spend their money on.

If, as a teacher in an academy, you don't understand the distinction I an worried for you.

Of course academies are state schools. They are just funded and managed not through the la.

In answer to the thread title; it has been ever thus. Or at least it was in the early 80s.

It will get worse.

Has anyone mentioned Ireland yet? They have to shell out hundreds, apparently.

Oh yes, so they did (sorry, Molly!).

I went to primary school in the 80s and 90s and secondary school in the 90s and 00s.

At various stages, my parents had to provide art sketchbooks (so that aspect isn't new), cooking ingredients and/or money (primary and secondary), goggles for science experiments, scientific calculators, etc.

None of this is a new phenomenon.

Ha alistron and sunshine now - whom shall I believe?

AFAIK the school I work in is funded by the state so that'll do for me.

I am not "griping" about 50p" btw - I am concerned about where this may lead!

MI You are lovely too!

I'd happily pay it. There isn't much money about and if the parents that can afford it help out our schools will be a better place for all of our children. I presume they have the books but are hoping the money they get from parents will go towards more art supplies, so if some genuinely can't afford it I'm sure the children will still get a book.

All free at my school, including food for cooking, books etc. Not sure about how budgets work (too junior) but there is enough money for all the basics and, before you ask, bog standard comp.