To Be P***** Off at yet another expensive school trip

[meah]

Hi, my ds has is now starting yr 9 & dd yr 8, in yr 7 a school trip was offered but cost was in the £300s (i forget exactly how much) being so expensive i couldn't afford it and it left both kids gutted when well over half of the kids in their yr got to go. ive just recieved another school trip email (not sure which yr not that it matters) offering a ski holiday trip, abroad for 6 nights for £680. which would be fantastic if i where loaded!! Why cant schools offer school trips that are affordable to all like they're supposed to instead of making those whos parents cant afford it feel left out!!!

I don't think music lessons, which are an expensive educational extra, fall under the same heading as holidays.

I think that we have got sidetracked by holidays - the skiing one was the only one that was a holiday - the rest were educational.

At one time I almost had a DC in the state sector and one in the private - I wouldn't have expected any difference in extras or opportunities.

If you are reading this and only have a baby start a saving scheme now - anyone would think it was a total surprise to be offered a trip in year 8.

What many of you seem to want is a bit of the private sector being brought into state schools, where you can buy some optional extras if you afford it.

I just want the state and private sectors to remain separate (NB: priavte sector dos nt mean private school, it means any activity for your child you pay for). So that at least within the school there is fairness, if not in the outside world; where you can buy yours kids as many foreign trip experiences and skiing holidays as yu can afford.

Sovery I knw that, but if it werepossible I would rather contribute, than a child at the same school miss out on a school organised activity that their peers were attending due to their parents finances.

Exotic we are going in circles then, becaus we've already had the if it's educational it's worse for poorer kids to miss out argument, which was justified by most aren't educational they're just nice holiday time trips for kids.

There an argument against both.

Educational trips should be accessible to all.
Holidays shouldn't really be schools business.

Back to wherever started.

I think you're right abut private school opportunities and state school opportunities that requre additional payment should be equal in both; in that they should both be offered by a private sector organiser. Not a semi private scheme within a state school.

bethjoanne the "paralympics" comment is incredibly discriminatory. Not all disabled people can be paralympians. Just as not all able bodied people can run like Usain Bolt.
I saw an item on Newsnight a while back where disabled people were discussing their concerns over the Paralympics.
They were concerned that it would create a divide between "good" disabled people and "bad" disabled people and cause more animosity towards disabled people in general.
It is very telling that there wasnt an item on the news about how the Olympics would create a divide between "bad" able bodied people and "good" able bodied people. Which really shows this society up for what it is.

The trips offered by firms like PGL to individuals are quite a bit dearer, as a rule, than those schools offer. Which stands to reason, considering their staffing costs are going to be higher.

The arguments seems to go:

If children in schools can't afford to go on the trips it's tough luck.

But when it's suggested trips should be organised by a private company, not the school, people say but that's not fair because then my child couldn't afford to go.

Spot the flaw in that argument.

My DS had a triplast year in yr 7, at his comp, 2 nights on a outward boundy type thing, for confidence and cooperation. Lovely. But it costs£350!!! A few kids didn't go, and tbh I don't know why, but that is a huge cost for many parents and I felt too much to be asking. Even though it was great for my DS, if any child could not go becaus of finances, I'd rather the school did not run the trip and found ways in school of building confidence or done a day trip so school could subsidise. A few children should not be left out of a school actibity due to their parents Income or ability pay.

People are ignoring the fact that at school, parents income shouldn't be an issue. It's the one place they should feel equal to their peers.

Er, yes LeQ you were summarising my argument quite well until the nonsense gagging children bit...Where did anyone say anything about children not being allowed to discuss their outside school activities at school cos it may upset others????

No one did.

Why do you persist in invalidating any reasonable argument you may have with ridiculous counter arguments to non sense invented non arguments no one has made??

It seems a very silly way to try to debate.

But just to be clear- I don't think children need to be prevented from discussing thier differing home lives at school, although some self awareness of necessary discretion to avoid looking like a preening jackass may help a few with those tendencies. You may have missed that lesson at school yourself an ironic wink for you, of which you are so fond.

Hth clarify.

What it comes down to for me is this:

If school trips didn't happen these activities may be accessible to 50% of the school students, if they do happen they're accessible to 80% of the children. Thus you are providing an opportunity for 30% of students who wouldn't otherwise have it.

Whereas the counter argument seems to be if 100% of pupils cannot access the opportunity then only the 50% who can afford to do it without the involvement of the school should do these things.

(figures at random!)

Fair enough Siene I'll re-phrase it then.

Should schools not allow a child to progress onto the next reading level book, until every child has mastered the first one - because there are parents affluent enough, so that one parent can not work and spend a lot of time helping their child with reading practice - as opposed to the parents who both need to work full time, and are too busy/tired/drained to sit reading with their child for 30 minutes every night...

Not always so. My mother is Italian and has trouble reading English so never sat and read with me as a child because she couldnt.
My dad never sat and read with me either.
I was still the top reader in the class.

The school could ask parents if finances are an issue to contact school. Genius plan.

Goldhsip, thank god, could you take the helm I've exhausted myself with the circles.

^Feelings of inequality are rife in schools. Absolutely rife. It's based on your parent's income, your physical looks, your intellectual ability, your sporting ability, your personal skills.

Teenage angst is born of such things 101 times a day.^

I mean equal in social class, monetary terms. As you said there's all those things that effect the child, why should an even bigger divide be made by bringing parents incomes into the equation. We have uniforms for this very reason.

Spoons if the school offered 1:1 GCSE tuition at £50 an hour, maybe 10% could afford it. So should they be denied this because 90% couldnt?

Yes.

Some parents may buy this outside school, but school shouldn't be offering something many or some can't afford. That's creating an elite within the school based on parental income.
It may exist outside school but shouldnt within the school.

OhSiena I actually do agree with the points you've made.

I'm not saying kids in state schools shouldn't be offered nice school trips and all that, but if people are that bothered about their kids going bloody skiing to the point they'll say 'oh but not offering them is setting them at a disadvantage', then put them in a private school?

Schools dont organise their students dental appointments, doctors appointments or hair cuts. All of these are actually quite useful things but are considered the parents' responsibility to arrange.

If I started to demand that the school sorted these out for me then I would be considered a very lazy and,dare I say it, entitled parent.

So why is it acceptable for schools to arrange something as frivolous as holidays for students?

It cant simply be about the group element because if so they would be organising students' birthday parties.

Some schools boast about these trips. They include them in their 'sales pitch' to parents. The ski trip to Austria, the geography field trip to China. These trips make good photographs and of course the head will conveniently forget to mention cost. If pushed then there will be some waffle about funds to help the less well off. These statements tend to be long on flannel and short on fact.

These trips use up school resources, the big one being staff goodwill. Because staff have already volunteered for these big ticket trips they will be less inclined to volunteer for the more mundane and affordable trips. Fewer of these less ambitious trips can take place. Poorer students are penalised twice - they dont get to go on the ski trip because their parents cant afford it then they dont get to go on smaller trips because schools dont offer them.

Sadly, according to some posters, this double hit is a useful life lesson. Like the poorer students didnt already know they hadnt picked life's winning ticket.

Agree with that point also.

Why should a school provide extra education to a child based on money? Wtf?

If the parents decide to do so outside of school, fair enough. Not the school itself though.