To Be P***** Off at yet another expensive school trip

[meah]

Hi, my ds has is now starting yr 9 & dd yr 8, in yr 7 a school trip was offered but cost was in the £300s (i forget exactly how much) being so expensive i couldn't afford it and it left both kids gutted when well over half of the kids in their yr got to go. ive just recieved another school trip email (not sure which yr not that it matters) offering a ski holiday trip, abroad for 6 nights for £680. which would be fantastic if i where loaded!! Why cant schools offer school trips that are affordable to all like they're supposed to instead of making those whos parents cant afford it feel left out!!!

People choose to spend their income in different ways. I choose to spend mine on my child.

I may not choose to spend it on alcohol, takeaways, cigarettes, junk food, designer clothes, games consoles, false nails, fake tan, handbags and so forth - you may see some or all of those as priorities in your day to day life. I may or may not choose to. Therefore my disposable income may be greater than yours because I spend it differently even though our salary may be equitable.

I've just re-read the OP, £680 for 6 nights (7 days?) which will include airfare, food, accommodation, skiing, lift passes, tuition other trips, other entertainment, food and so forth plus chaperone is proportionately cheap. But it is only 'cheap' if you have time to budget for it and you don't have to purchase any specialist equipment.

Outraged, I have to say that you have been responsible for some of the most inane comments on this thread and your latest post is no exception.

My point is that a child's access to opportunity should not be inflenced by an arbitrary circumstance that is entirely outside of its control (i.e. colour / gender / parents bank balance).

You say the 'majority of parents do have some ability to pay', yet only half the children went.

And my favourite comment of yours, that the parents of child A are the 'good parents'. Erm no, this is exactly the opposite of my point. They are simply the parents who have been lucky enough to be provided with cultural and financial capital during their childhood, that means they now are able to navigate the educational and work markets, equipped with the tools to do so. The parents of child B, are those people who did not have equal access to opportunity in THEIR childhood. And thus the cycle of social inequality is perpetuated.

Do you honestly think that only 'the few' can't afford £1000 pound trips to Morocco? Really?

Then read the thread back (it has gotten quite long) uniform has been commented on a few times.

Robyn - WTAF!!!!! And some parents might choose to spend their income on rent, food, transport to work and utility bills. I am astounded that you would post that!

Robyn.

Do you live in DailyMailLand, or somesuch?

I was assuming most parents do spend on rent/mortgage food, house hold, work expenses.

I was pointing out that disposable income is just that, disposable - priorities for spending it differ. You may like a set of gel nails, I would consider that a waste of money that could be more usefully deployed IYSWIM

I understand all about the cycle of social inequality and how these things are about luck of birth etc, but I still can't see that as a good reason to deny everyone a good opportunity just to spare a little disappointment.

I said the majority of parents have some ability to pay, because I was thinking of my own experience and referring to the OP which says "well over half the kids in their year got to go".

That's the majority, and I don't see why you think they should be denied because of the minority.

Some people don't HAVE disposable income. How very fucking dare you!!

I don't know what gel nails are.

And Outraged - why should the minority be denied a school trip though - it is not THEIR fault that their parents cannot pay.

Agree with Robyn, and that's what I mean when I say most parents do have some ability to pay. I really do think its a minority that couldn't, over 5-7 years of secondary school save up £700 for one trip. And there are trips cheaper than this available at schools too. That's where it comes to the point about priorities, and people choosing to spend their disposable income differently.

Thank you Outraged.

Well maybe outraged you should think of those people (i.e. vast, vast numbers of them) who live outside of your own experience. The education system should not be a means of providing opportunity for the able majority, and of denying it to the unable minority. I don't think that the majority are 'denied' in life, they are already the winners outside of the education system. I believe that schools should focus on providing GENUINE opportunities for the minority (and I am not talking about trips to twatting Fiji, but things like the ability to read, write, communicate with people on all levels, have self belief that they are able to achieve genuine success).

Robyn 'You may like a set of gel nails, I would consider that a waste of money that could be more usefully deployed IYSWIM'. WTAF????

No, it's not their fault their parents can't pay, and it might not be their parents fault either. But we aren't talking about children that can't go having to ensure that severe a hardship. They will be disappointed, just the same as the child who came home gutted that he wasn't good enough to make the football team, the parents will manage that and then life will go on. It's not the end of the world for a child to miss out on a trip that enough other people can't do.

Endure

@ having good parents comment.

SoSweet, don't you think that individual schools take these things into consideration when they plan school trips? Schools do have some idea of the demographic of their intake, and they can plan trips and likely budgets accordingly.

My comprehensive school used to offer each year

January Ski Trip
Feb half term walking (UK)
French exchange
German exchange
Summer multi activity
Oct half term walking (UK)
Dry ski slope trips once per half term

Nobody went on every trip, some people went on none. Now you're saying that these options shouldn't have been available to anyone because they weren't fully subsidised trips?

I think it's amazing that teachers were willing to give up their time to arrange these trips and supervise us all. Group discounts meant it was all far more affordable than it otherwise would have been. They were providing opportunities for pupil's who may otherwise not have had them, not taking opportunities away.

What is it about the notion of equality of OPPORTUNITY that you are so reluctant to understand outraged? The child who is shit at football at least got a chance to try. The child whose parents cannot afford to send him/her on a trip did not get that chance. So the disappointment, will be an unjust one, based purely on external circumstance, rather than the child's own merit.

Is it ok that materially and culturally 'poor' people are forever disappointed, and that materially advantaged people are forever entitled? Yes we all know that this is how the world works, but it is not right! And schools are the one bloody place that has the power to actually make genuine change!

I believe that schools should focus on providing GENUINE opportunities for the minority

See, that has to be the biggest thing we disagree on. Focus on minority is something that I don't think is fair. When it comes to focus, that is the one thing more than anything else at school that should be given equally.

I think we should probably just ban all school trips because there will always be someone who can't afford it, even if it costs £20. If we can't guarantee full participation then no-one should do them. Yes?

What about the parent, born in abject poverty, that broke their back to have more for their child?

Should that parent feel guilty, or deprive their own child the chance to go on a trip that they themselves were denied due to lack of money?

What if that parent can say to their child "thanks to the choices I made, to the decisions I took, you can go on this trip. Should they not do it because other parents may not have made the choices/sacrifices they did?

What if that parent is proud to be able to send their child on the trip?

outraged if only half of the school children are able to take up the opportunity then no, I don't think that the school has taken the demographic into account.

My point spoons is that the opportunities should be available to all. I understand what you mean about the group discounts making trips available to more children, but what about those 'some people who went on none'. What about their life chances?

The opportunities for these things at school are a step away from parents never having the chance. School is how they get that chance to broaden their experience and become more employable and hopefully make a success of their future.

It's when you don't provide these opportunities that your aforementioned cycle of social inequality continues into future generations.