To Be P***** Off at yet another expensive school trip

[meah]

Hi, my ds has is now starting yr 9 & dd yr 8, in yr 7 a school trip was offered but cost was in the £300s (i forget exactly how much) being so expensive i couldn't afford it and it left both kids gutted when well over half of the kids in their yr got to go. ive just recieved another school trip email (not sure which yr not that it matters) offering a ski holiday trip, abroad for 6 nights for £680. which would be fantastic if i where loaded!! Why cant schools offer school trips that are affordable to all like they're supposed to instead of making those whos parents cant afford it feel left out!!!

Outraged - the difference is everyone gets a chance to audition for choir etc.

My children are familiar with 'we can't afford it,' and readily accept - DP and I are very honest with them about money. And DP and I grew up with thrift and milk tokens etc

My point is that surely schools can make better choices for school trips which would allow children from all backgrounds to participate.

"Their parents have money because somewhere along the line they have worked for it".

See I don't think that's wholly true. I think it's more Their parents have money because somewhere along the line they have worked for it AND BEEN LUCKY.

Good on them too and I don't begrudge them it.

But some parents also work very very hard and don't have money.

Setting all that aside, why does the child, when they are at school, have access to an exciting opportunity and they are chosen for it not through ability, hard work or even luck but by what their parents have in their bank account?

About, no, that's not a difference. Because I as a parent had access to the same education and work as parents who can afford way more than I can. In a country where education is free for all, we do all have the same options on the things that matter. School trips don't really matter that much, it's not going to actually harm a child's future career choice if they didn't get a place on the year 8 ski trip.

So poor children don't get a holiday because of their parents? And that helps them how exactly? I assume they don't need a lesson in the world isn't fair because they live and breathe that.

Allthefun, like I said at the beginning of the thread, not everything is about helping poor children. All the children in a school deserve to have opportunity provided to them. The school cannot and should not revolve itself entirely around one socio economic group when there are other that deserve as much consideration as anyone else.

Agree Ovenchips.

Imagine if getting into the choir, football team or the opportunity to take a particular GSCE depended on how much money your parents had?

I'm really not understanding why it's ok to make a child face disappointment because of their lack of ability or talent but its not ok to allow them to feel disappointment because of anything else.

well well, this really has opened a can of political worms. Who knew a thread about school trips would be so feisty.

I also agree with Betty.

Interesting that there seems to be an assumption that people who don't have a problem with expensive trips are those that can afford them, or who went on them.

I imagine that people who can afford £650 for one child to go on a school trip can afford to organise their own holiday. If their parents don't like skiing, well diddums.

Unless it is about making these things accessible and affordable to more people, it is totally unnecessary and inappropriate for state schools to use their staff's time and other resources to run them.

I want children to be offered as many opportunities for learning and enjoyment as possible and that makes me 'stuck quite far up my own selfish and entitled arse'?

Err, no. It's those that think that no child should have what their own children can't have that are being 'selfish and entitled'.

And I might understand the disappointment thing better if it was explained. I'm quite open to understanding valid points that I may it have considered.

I thought the same noblegiraffe!

" it is totally unnecessary and inappropriate for state schools to use their staff's time and other resources to run them."

I thought we were talking about trips that took place outside of school hours?

Outraged, if you really need it to be explained..

Getting into a team/choir etc depends mainly on a child's own abilities.

Going on an expensive school trip depends mainly on a parents income.

I remember back in the ancient past day, when Operation Raleigh first started thinking how fantastic it sounded, and wanting to do it. But then slowly realising there was absolutely no way I could raise the funds (which was IIRC around £1k back then). I would basically have had to work a full time job for half a year or more to save the money. And sponsorship from people I knew would have raised around £200 if I'd dedicated most of my last year to it, and pestered everyone I knew till they hated the sight of me. If another person from my peer group had also tried it my sponsorship would have been down 30 - 50 %. Businesses in our area just didn't sponsor individuals.

I was really put out because the blurb around it made it sound like it was designed for everyone and all you needed was a bit of energy and dedication. It was accessible and worth the effort and would give you a real boost in your experience of life, organisational skills and general "how to be a successful grownup-iness". It confused me for a while. I wondered how kids actually did it. How could anyone raise that money? Did they know about it years in advance and fun raise/save as soon as they hit senior school? What happened?

It was only when I went to University that I realised that, for the most part, the "fund raising" that went on was kids from rich families asking their parents to fund it with token cake sales etc. It was no proof of your ability to make things happen in life. It wasn't a way for "normal" kids to access the things those from more privileged backgrounds did. It was just one more way that kids from richer backgrounds got their experiences. I'm not so much against them having the experience, I'm against this way of gaining experience being sold as something that is for everyone. Run by a charity that benefited from tax breaks. Promoted as a sign of maturity and entrepreneurship in the participant. And then finding out it's just another holiday camp (for most) but with more kudos.

So I agree with the OP - if the school doesn't make sure there are funds available for those who can't afford it, they should be concentrating their efforts on things that all the kids at the school could access. Because if they are running a £600+ skiing trip they could instead be running a £100 camping trip that far more children would have access to and that more bursaries could be made available for.

I think its great schools offer trips, they have for years and long may it continue. I didnt have the option to go as a child but DS will if he chooses.

Schools do local day trips and exceptional trips, they shouldnt have to change that as some people cant afford to go. People budget differently, choose to work part time or not at all so why should they dictate to the school what other parents can spend their money on.

I agree with the poster who says parents are responsible for their own children. Children have always come with expenses and high school trips can be saved for years in advance if need be.

school trips at our school are run in term time and I see this thread has moved on quite a bit

Surely state schools should not deliberately set out to discriminate on the basis of wealth? Especially given how many schools bang on and on about school uniform being important so that all children look the same and you cant tell which are the rich kids.

If the trip is educational then it should be planned at a level that all children can go. If the trip isn?t educational then school time and resources should not be wasted on promoting it ? this is a particular waste of scarce school resources when only a very small number of students go on the trip.

Not laying on a ski trip does not mean that students are missing out. If you want your kids to go on a ski trip then sort it out yourself and don?t waste the school?s time sorting it out for you.

Sending your kids on the school ski trip because you cant be bothered/dont want to sort it out for yourself is just laziness.

Gnome i wish there was a like button for your post. Especially the first paragraph. Schools really are giving out mixed messages demonstrated beautifully in the first two lines of your post.

Can you honestly not see a difference?

Because it's a lot fairer. It's them being successful or not on their own merit. If it's based on ability or hard work yes they face disappointment but crucially they have the opportunity to try. And that is a big part of learning about 'real life', something people keep banging on about on this thread. And as a parent we do our best to help them to find their natural talents and hopefully they achieve some success with them, so their school life isn't one disappointment after another.

I guess in some ways it depends on whether you ascribe to meritocracy or not.

I was rude and I apologise Freddos. Had a little rage moment there.

May I point out how splendidly ironic your name is btw?

And absobloodylutley Emmeline

exactly GndP

HappyMum - for a massive number of people this is NOT a "budgeting" issue. you must be incredibly cossetted if you believe that

I'm glad that our school offers a range of opportunities throughout the year, at several different price points, so that parents can choose which one - if any - they want their child to attend.

Some years DC get to go on the expensive foreign trip, some years they don't, but I don't begrudge those that can afford it sending their child on every trip - blimey, if I got jealous every time someone bought something I couldn't, or gave their child something I couldn't give mine, I'd be a seething bitter wreck.

I just tell them that we can't afford this one. And actually, this year, out of a year group of 300, only 50 went on the skiing holiday so they were hardly in the minority (and if they were I wouldn't care).

Gnome - most people don't send their child on the skiing trip because they are too lazy to sort it out themselves, they do it because they can just manage to send their child but couldn't afford to take a whole family.

It's not about jealousy - it's about organising school treats better do everyone can enjoy them.